Description

People that tell you that horns can't sound good have never heard them with the right equipment properly set up in good room. They simply disappear and make music. . . I wish everyone could hear it to understand what can be accomplished when this process is properly implemented.

Amp can be either First Watt or 300B with flip of a few switches
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Room Details

Dimensions: 30’ × 16’  Large
Ceiling: 8’


Components Toggle details

    • Apple Mac Mini 2018 running Roon
    • Fanless computer running Euphony endpoint, Jcat USB and ethernet
    Currently using the Euphony software as an NAA endpoint for HQplayer that is integrated with Roon on the Mac Mini Core. This is all in transition at the moment but may be the winner. Can upsample with HQP to 769 for PCM and 512 for DSD and send over the network to this, then USB to Hermes which converts to I2S for Terminator +
    • HDPLEX linear supply for computer
    • Audiolense DSP software
    • Denafrips Hermes USB to I2S
    • Denafrips Terminator Plus
    • Merrill-Williams 101.3 with three 12 inch arms
    • Moerch DP-8 with ZYX 1 ohm Optimum
    • Cardas Clear Beyond DIN - RCA phono cable
    • Moerch DP6 with Miyajima Zero mono
    • Temaad Warlock with Miyajima Shilabe
    • Cardas Clear all the interconnects
    • Esoteric E-02 phono stage
    • Bent Audio TAP passive pre with Slagle autoformers
    • First Watt F7
    • Sophia Electric 300B SET highly modified
    Can either use this or the headphone amps in the DAC to power the speakers
    • Cardas Clear Cygnus Speaker Cable, 3 pair to tri-wire
    • Star Sound Technologies sp4 Sistrum rack
    • Avantgarde Duo Omega w/ 16 foot DIY basshorns
    The stock Duos are very good but the Omega is a completely different level of performance. Should be for the price. I built the 16 foot horns to cover 30-180Hz and replace stock AG woofers.
    • Eighth Nerve room treatments
    These things really work.
    • GIK Acoustics Acoustic Panels
    I have a very lively room with brick walls and plaster ceiling. These have tamed it. my RT60 time is almost ideal

Comments 101

222222&text=cy
Just wanted to tip my hat to you, sir.  This is an over-the-top system, and I love it.  Happy listening to you!

cymbop

222222&text=di
Nice system Bruce! ..showing some awesome diy skill.
hey, is there an escape tunnel from the subwoofer?

didi

222222&text=ac
I got the 14'x17'x8' dimensions from your post here on 10-18-08. Didn't realize you had relocated. Could you please tell me the name and location of the business you used to recone your 225? I have not had any luck finding someone reliable and the time is coming when I will have to deal with surround/come replacement.

Thanks for your assistance.

acresverde

222222&text=he
Owner
The 225s are just sitting there, dead weight.. they are some of the original version, no line in,  so pretty much worthless. I sold and shipped them once and a driver got damaged so had it re-coned. Would like to get rid of them but at 100 pounds each probably cost more to ship than they are worth at this point. At one point I had 3 pair of 225s in another room and other than the pain of integrating all of them it was better than one pair, but, let's face it, compared to the horns they really do suck. 

The room is 30 x 16 x 8

herman

222222&text=ac
Hi Herman,

Duo owner here. Am I correct in that you have a pair of 225's deployed on top of the left hand bass horn? Is there another pair at play somewhere I can't see?And how did you arrive at the chosen positioning for the pair I do see? Can't believe you've got all of THAT fitted in a 14' X 17' X 8' space.

acresverde

128x128
Wow. 

Would love opportunity to listen to your magnificent system when the virusphere permits travel again. 

Peace.

bosssound

Center
Wow,

vinyl

tubes

horns

....... funny how good things last.
Beautiful, I truly am in awe, gobsmacked!

Happy Listening!

r_f_sayles

222222&text=he
Owner
.

Skushino, thanks, whatever JJ comes up with will be very good.

Chiba, If it were my design I would share the schematics but I got a lot of help from a friend who is in the business so it wouldn't be fair to share.

Mike, true to a point but the mid horns run full range so there was never any crossover on those when I was all analog. Perhaps the algorithms that Pure Music is using are superior to what you tried or the DAC portion of the RME is better, or both. In any case I'm happy where I'm at.

.

herman

222222&text=du
hi herman,
with my test I could hear the effect of placing a digital filter where there was no filter at all and therefor could hear what exactly this filter does. really bad is probably exagerated a bit but one could easily hear the negative effects of such a filter. in your case you replaced an analog filter with a digital one. thats very different. analog filter also got a lot of problems. ones I replaced the stock mundorf silver/gold caps in my tweeter xo with teflon v-caps. it is shocking to hear how much music get lost in these highly regarded mundorfs.
so if you have lets say an average quality analog xo and replace it with a digital one you may very well gain sonic benefits.
duomike

duomike

222222&text=sk
Hi Herman- very BIG system, and ambitious DIY work. Would love to hear a real bass horn like yours, some day. JJ has been lending support in my design of a much less ambitious bass horn. Keep swingin' for the fences!

skushino

222222&text=ch
Hello, any chance of schematics on how to build the amplifiers? they are excellent, great job!!!!

chiba280

222222&text=he
Owner
i had the idea to set a high pass filter at 100 hz so that the duos midrange does not get the low bass. it worked but sounded really bad.

I respectfully submit that something is either fundamentally flawed in the way your system is doing the digital processing or somehow defective. A properly implemented and properly functioning digital filter that is working an octave below the passband of the driver will not cause it to sound real bad.

I've had any number of die hard analog people over here and none of them hear the digital nastiness you are hearing in yours and nothing anywhere close to "real bad." In fact, they begrudgingly admit it sounds very, very good..

.

herman

222222&text=du
I'm using a tact millenium to drive my duos. the tact hast got a sub out which drives via another amp my corner subs. I use xo and eq in the bass channel only. I could use eq on the mid and high also (the millenium can be hooked up via a cable to a computer) and I can change settings like adding a filter almost on the fly when listening to music per mouse click. once i had the idea to set a high pass filter at 100 hz so that the duos midrange does not get the low bass. it worked but sounded really bad. in this case I did not exchange an analog xo for a digital one but I just added a digital one per mouse click way below the duos mid horn cut off. this enabled me to hear the effects of digital eq.
also my amp is flat into 6 ohms. at the duos 16 ohm it sounds too bright. could use the tone control function to cut highs by a db at 20 khz. again this works but even just changing the response slightly is adding quite a bit of digital nasties.. solved the problem by putting a 10 ohm power resistor across my amps binding post so that my amp "sees" roughly a 6 ohm load. not an elegant solution but it sounds a lot better then using even a very small amount of digital eq.
just some food for thought

duomike

222222&text=he
Owner
The crossover is done by Pure Vinyl. Amps hooked directly to drivers. I hear no "digital nasties." The gain is such that I'm usually within about 10dB of max volume. I hear what you are saying but everything is a compromise and I decided to compromise with digital processing with the benefit of time alignment and room correction EQ. I would like to try it the other way.. someday perhaps.

.

herman

222222&text=du
would like to comment re crossover. using ag omega duos with lyngdorf corner subs.
digital xo has got it's own sonic problems. it's adding quite a bit of what I call digital nasties to the sound. analog xo of course is also far away from being transparent. I replaced the mundorf silver gold in my tweeter xo a few years back with teflon v-caps. the difference is amazing!
herman, if you are using an amp for every channel use xo at the input of each amp, use highest quality parts only. this will sound a lot better than digital xo IMHO
regards
Duomike

duomike

222222&text=t
I love your 6-channel amp concept. What is the active crossover you are using? Reading back I found the elimination of the passive crossover but not what actually replaced it (unless I did not realize that you are running it through Pure Vinyl).

t_bone

222222&text=he
Owner
System edited: Back to tubes, just finished my 6 channel amp

herman

222222&text=he
Owner
It can be loud but that's not one of my goals, but it is definitely dynamic and there is a big 3 dimensional sound stage floating behind the speakers and extending side wall to side wall with recordings that are capable of doing that.

.

herman

Center
I know it is dynamic and loud but how well does the system image? Thanks

vernneal

Center
Hi Herman - more and more friends are also switching to SS amps, looks like tubes are starting to sound more like SS as well as the other side around :)

flg2001

222222&text=he
Owner
System edited: I don't believe it either but I replaced the tube amps with SS.. Linn 6100 Chakra 6 channel w/ Dynamik power supply. Sounds great.

herman

222222&text=br
Wow. I love your approach of digital crossover + triamping + no crossover between amps and drivers. If I were to redesign my system from the ground up, and I could afford it, I would do exactly the same thing. It must sound incredible.

Bryon

bryoncunningham

222222&text=he
Owner
Hi Paul, time alignment was a plus but I think eliminating all passive components between the amp and driver was a much bigger improvement.

I understand your reservations. It does seem counter intuitive to digitize vinyl but in my case at least the pluses outweigh the minuses.

.

herman

222222&text=pa
I am guessing your passive xover lacked time-alignment? With bass horns of your size I would guess that issue alone would put the digital XO firmly in the lead.

That said, nothing at all wrong with the digital soln! I am doing it too! I guess there is some part of me that still isn't quite on-board yet.

paulfolbrecht

222222&text=he
Owner
As good as vinyl? That is very subjective since there are so many variables. If you read the recent Stereophile review I think Fremmer got it mostly right. The digitized does shine in some areas and it is different and some may prefer the digitized but a very high end phono will still sound more analog. How much you have to spend to beat it is open for debate.

I digitize at 24/192 but so far have only recorded a few. I have no desire to archive my vinyl.

In my case with active triamping it is a solution that I'm extremely happy with.

I did start with passive crossovers and this is much better.

http://stereophile.com/phonopreamps/pure_vinyl_lp_recording_amp_editing_software/

.

herman

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