Description

Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description 

Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active

Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors -  for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect. 
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life  (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
 
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker.   Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft. 

Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1.  Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far. 

Psychology Part 

Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.  

Audiophile not.....

Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.   

History 

Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.  

I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa.  :^)

"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven;  there is room, even for Audiophiles"  
8^0


Living in the country

Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time. 

The negative aspects of Isolation aside;  one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas. 

Thanks for reading and please say Hi.  

Happy Listening  


Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 24’ × 20’  Large
Ceiling: 8’


Components Toggle details

    • My Music Library Records, Tape, Cd's, Files.
    I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me.  Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
    • ***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
    I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends. 

    Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.  

    Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low.  This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
    • RTR - Studer Tape Deck - For Listening & Vinyl Tuning
    RTR - Studer - used to play 15 IPS Tapes. 
     
    1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
    • JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
    2012 

    http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html 

    Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right.  Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....  
     
    Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread. 

    This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability. 

     In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread. 

    Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.

     "Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities." 

    Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.

    http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineV.html]Platine 

    The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.  
    • Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
    This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner.  I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air. 

    https://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-Owners

    One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.

    VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.

    See ET2 Bass Management Below
    • Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
    2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
    • The PUMP ET2
    Life Support for the ET2's.
    Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.

    These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.

    I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.

    This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.


    The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.

    • ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
    2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
    • Audio Research DAC8
    From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read.  :^)

     http://www.audioresearch.com/ContentsFiles/DAC8_white_paper.pdf

     
    • Audio Research SP11 - MKII Pre Amp Modded
    Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
    • Matrix 800
    Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back. 
    They were a  2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).

    All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)

    800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp.
    93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover. 

    Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL.  All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and  the modded Music Reference RM9.  

    Krell Amplifier Story
    My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps.
    Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.

    600 wpc - 8 ohms,
    1200 wpc 4 ohms,
    2400 wpc 2 ohms.

    The speakers are a 4 ohms design due to the double woofers.
    New spiders in all the four woofers.
    • KRELL FPB600 & KRELL Bass Alignment Filters
    Krell / 800 Matrix Interface. KRELL FPB600 KRELL 800 Matrix BAF Furutech IEC. 

     20 amp power cord. 
     20 amp wall service. 
     http://hansvt.home.xs4all.nl/pdf/brochures/baf.pdf
    • ROGER MODJESKI Music Reference RM9 MODDED
    I have two of his amps. RM10 used with QUAD 57's

    RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp.
    Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers.
    WBT 0700 Connectors.
    KT88 output tubes.
    Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
    • MATRIX 800 INSTALL
    Installation
    • 800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.

    The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.

    All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
    This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago 

    It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
    B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph. 

    The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.  

    The two interesting parts.  

    Part 1 

    Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz.  The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.    

    Part 2 

    Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801.  You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense. 

    801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before;  are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.  
    • ************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
    A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
    • ******************SPEAKERS ***********************************
    03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water … The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
    • Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
    Two of these in Room B -  18hz - 60 hz. 
    4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
    On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz.  They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms. 
    I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system. 
    • Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
    Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.

    With certain music magic for me.

    8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida.
    The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57’s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.

    Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
    • 801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
    Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's).  In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.  

    801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."  

    They are not full range to 20 hz without the BAF. 

    http://kenrockwell.com/audio/b-w/800-series-bass-alignment-filter.htm 

    ***************************************************************************** 

    From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments." 

    *******************************************************************************

    801 S2 versus S3. 
    Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange – tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed) 


    ******************************************************************************* 

     In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording. 

    Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...

    See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter. 
    • B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
    B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.

    n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved.
    Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies.
    Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.

    500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.

    ESL Panel was provided by JansZen.
    Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz
    Double fuse protection C and CA versions.


    Restored and refurbished. Silver wiring inside

    http://loudspeaker-repair-service.reromanus.net/B+W-Manual_1970.pdf

    http://reromanus.net/loudspeaker-repair-service/refurbish_DM70.htm

    http://www.mats-enterprise.co.uk/DM70page/index.htm
    • Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
    Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.


    These are in our living area shared space
    Custom modded Model 3;s.
    They have rebuilt interfaces.
    Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs.
    Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
    • Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
    March 11, 2013 Update


    Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.

    Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations.
    SP10MKII Version Five
    Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers.
    19 lb Solid Brass Pod
    1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.

    Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.



    This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold

    Detailed tips and observations here.



    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-Owners
    • Jean Nantais 100 LB Two Tonearm Custom Lenco
    Jean Nantais Custom turntable.
    Includes:
    100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth
    Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards.
    Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate.
    Bonded Metacrylate mat
    Bearpaw footers.
    IEC outlet.
    • ************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
    For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
    • McAlister OTL 195
    OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
    • Fidelity Research FR64s
    Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
    • Modded VPI's
    Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
    • Acoustat Spectra 33
    Acoustat Spectra 33
    • Eminent Technology LFT 8a
    Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
    • ****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
    From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun. 
    Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5  tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important. 
     Audiogon ET2 thread 

     http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-
    • COMPARING TURNTABLES (Jan 2010)
    Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details. 

    Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
    • OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
    In room comparison.
    • Thread Drive Comparisons
    2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
    • ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
    According to Bruce
    My ears agree
    • ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
    Pictures courtesty of a friend.
    • ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
    Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
    • ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
    VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
    • ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
    Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
    • ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
    Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
    • ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
    Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass.
    The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
    • Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
    General Cartridge Guideline 
     Single Leaf Spring - High compliance 
     Double - Medium Compliance 
     Triple - Low compliance
    • ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
    Solid Brass Arm Pod
    • Koaltar Tweak
    my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
    • Kitty Tweak Bengal
    a real sweetheart
    • RCA Victor Dog
    I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog, 

    The original Victor RCA dog.  
    He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.

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The capacitor and resistor kit parts that arrived from Australia have not been installed yet. 
Reference to the attached picture.   


In trouble shooting with Rob at ER Audio he indicated to me that the 800m ohm resistors "three of them" in series, function to drain voltage from the panel when the listening session ends.  They could be keeping the panel from charging fully.  He doesn't use this  drain resistors "design" in the ESL speakers that his company makes. 
I discovered through research that carbon resistors which these are,  tend to go up in values as they age. My multimeter for testing resistors only goes up to 40m ohm, So I ordered a Megaohm meter from Amazon for $60 and tested the resistors. They were way out.  I was getting 1200m ohm readings. Well above the 800m ohm they should be at.  As these resistors are daisy chained, Rob  suggested I cut one of the resistor legs - taking them out of the circuit. I did this. in the picture I cut the leg the arrow is pointing to.  
Sure enough that speakers ESL Panel output now equals the other ones consistently.   Have been listening to them all week. So far so good. 
The rebuild kit parts will still be installed. I am just enjoying the speakers right now. The nice thing about these speakers is that the massive 13 inch woofer means no subs are needed.  There is significant DB levels in the 40-50 hz range.  Their presentation using a number of different amps is quite interesting and different.  Some amps produce a looser, flabbier bass. Others tight and shorter noted bass. 
The nice thing is that with all the amps tried, voice and higher frequencies are consistently the same, with small variances only.  

ct0517

Center
Owner
blank post

ct0517

Center
Owner
DM70 ESL Speaker Power Supply Rebuild Kit arrived from ER Audio Australia. 
Here is a picture of the Resistor, Diodes and Caps contained in the kit.

ct0517

Center
Owner
B&W Electrostatic DM70c Speaker Rebuild/Restore Project Update 

Through the last week of listening I noticed one of the ESL Panels goes lower in DB level - throwing the imaging off. Voices shift to the stronger Panel on the right side.  Switching the Panels fixes the problem temporarily. 

Eventually the left cabinet goes weak again. This tells me the ESL power supply in that cabinet is off.  

After troubleshooting with ER Audio Australia, I ordered  the EHT Board parts kit (Diodes and Capacitators)  from them.  

In the attached picture the part circled in yellow is the EHT board that feeds the ESL panel.


The parts shown in the closeup will be replaced. 

Unfortunately as these speakers are rare - they don't make whole EHT board replacements like they do for the Quad 57. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Added pics of recent Vintage Speaker Restores/Revivals to the virtual system.
  
B&W DM70c Electrostatic Speakers - 1971 

Yamaha NS "Elephant EAR: Speakers - 1968

Still looking for more information on the Yamaha speakers. I started  the linked thread.  


*****************************************************

"This sounds cruel, but maybe you ought to have your cat de-clawed maybe?"

Dan - we acquired our now 5 year old F3 Savannah named Katya at 4 years of age. Her previous owner named her  Katya - (Russian name meaning Pure). Aside from the obvious cruelty you mention involved in declawing - when a person declaws a cat, IMO, they pretty much eliminate any chance for the animal to defend itself, if they should get out, and find herself lost, trying to get back home. 

So what I accept is, a Speaker, is a Speaker, is a Speaker, is a turntable, is an amp, is a preamp, is a summer car.....,  material things......wait a minute.... forget the last one .....8^0.  

and our "Kitty" is family.  

and FWIW this is my first cat. I didn't know what a Savannah cat was let alone what F3 meant before we got her. Audiogoneer Uberwaltz (Kevin) has been very helpful in educating me.  

Cheers Chris 

ct0517

Center
Owner

Hi Dan - apparently these speakers were John Bowers favorite speaker. I am beginning to realize why now. 
I have them positioned 5 feet in front of the Quads. It is a large space.  The speakers are maybe 8 feet in front of me and the output I am getting from the ESL panels is large room filling, and it blends very nicely with the woofer cabinet.  You read these days about how current ESL speakers with integrated woofers,  can't mix well with their Dynamic bass woofer.  Well here you go. 1971. They got it right - but the cost to build was more than their selling price, so I believe one of the reasons they were discontinued.

I have tried removing all of the cabinet stuffing and bass became very  woolly.  It was resonating everywhere.   The cabinet is damped with this stuffing - in a big transparent bag - The bass is very tuneable,  with the amount of stuffing it contains. Some people have removed the stuffing and attached rubber mats to the inside.  

I repeated the procedure for the other ESL panel.  Some of the previous owner restoration work was shoddy, and would not allow for good connections in spots to perform a full charge. Screws and plates were tightened and cleaned. 

*********************************************

If you look at the picture link in this post. What can be seen is.  

------------|--------------|---------------|----------------|------------------|
___1) Stator __2)Spacer __3)Mylar ____4)_Spacer___5)Stator       
  
4) Other side of Myler has a spacer as well. 

The stators hold the voltage and it alternates back and forth, and makes the Mylar vibrate producing sound.  Think Hummingbird bird wings.  A simple way of explaining it. 


*********************************************
Our Cat is in love with the Acoustat ESL's upstairs so much so that I have them covered them and they are in the corners hidden, not being used. I am terrified to charge them up.  Maybe I bring these DM70c speakers upstairs ? Speakers are my Achilles Heel I think. Get them sorted and I can't get rid of them.
  
*********************************************
there was a problem with one of my links in the previous post. The virtual system database doesn't have the same functionality that the general forums have for linking pics and other functions. The posts got messed up and some text deleted. Sorry for any confusion this causes anyone. 

ct0517

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Owner

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ob6GpDtmTpGcsW2t7


An update on my B&W Electrostatic speaker Repair. 

Symptoms - One of the ESL Panels was not as loud as the other. 

I switched the ESL panels and the problem moved over to the other side. This told me it was a panel problem. So I took the ESL Panel off and started the process of removing the ESL panel parts.  

The way an ESL  works is actually very simple when you break it down. There is a membrane - mylar  that has spacers on each side of it.  On either side of these spacers are the stators that take the voltage and conduct electricity < > making the membrane move / vibrate. This creates the sound.  


In the top link the picture on the very right shows the stator on top, then the spacer and the membrane itself which underneath it one will find the other spacer and stator. 

Much to my surprise when I removed the parts I found what is in the picture on the membrane. 


Debris larger than dust. Maybe from a house project entered the ESL Panel when it was charged up.  The bottom picture shows my attempt to clean it.  The debris on the mylar was preventing full movement. Other than that the mylar was tight and no holes or damage from what I could see.  

The speakers had been repaired prior to myself owning them.  I remember when I initially set them up, I experimented with external tweeters.  But I had the Quad 57 project going on at the same time so didn't get too detailed with them.  These speakers do not need external tweeters. The one speaker was throwing the balance off. 

The bass can be tuned easily by removing or adding cabinet stuffing.  

ct0517

Center
Owner


An update on my B&W Electrostatic speaker Repair. 

Symptoms - One of the ESL Panels was not as loud as the other. 

I switched the ESL panels and the problem moved over to the other side. This told me it was a panel problem. So I took the ESL Panel off and started the process of removing the ESL panel parts.  

The way an ESL  works is actually very simple when you break it down. There is a membrane - mylar  that has spacers on each side of it.  On either side of these spacers are the stators that take the voltage and conduct electricity < > making the membrane move / vibrate. This creates the sound.  








ct0517

Center
Owner


B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Winter Project  

I have noticed around this time every year, with about 6 weeks of winter remaining, that I tend to get the Audiophile itch. Listening to music has helped me so far, but I need to get my hands moving.

I pulled my B&W DM70c Continental Speakers out of storage and set them up a few feet in front of the Quad 57's in Room B.  

The speakers sound amazing, as I remembered and their design is timeless. But the one ESL panel output was down.
 
After various attempts at troubleshooting, and looking into repair solutions; weighing time and $$$, I decided to go the DIY route for repair with a DM70 Repair kit from an Australian Company ER Audio.


***************************************
Looking to share any info on the forum from anyone that has attempted this repair. 

Tips and Guidance appreciated. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Happy New Year.

thought I would post about the wonderful time I have been having with my son going through albums on Tidal Hi Fi then comparing to the vinyl.  You know when it has gone well ....they ask you ......so how do I turn everything on and off again ?  

A memorable moment for me, was when he brought over his buddy, who upon seeing the matrix 800 room 1, wanted to know how to pair up to those speakers.  8^0... So he hooked his phone up, his music,  into my system.  
He was in dis belief , like most,  upon first seeing the Quad 57's Room 2 and believing that they were in fact speakers. Once he heard them ...he believed. 

The only music negative, was in the "inability"  to run my Acoustat Model 3's on the main floor over the holiday period.  I am  "allowed" to stream music on the main floor as long as selections include Christmas music and Motown.  The reason was due to Katya our Savannah cat now 5 years old. We have had her one year.  She developed a fondness for the Acoustat cloth grills from day one.   The material was one thing;  but her playing on voltage charged speakers was another.  So they got wrapped with a spare carpet rug (she seemed to love the plastic dust cover rustling  noises )  and moved to the corners. 

I have tried cat scratchers in the room. 

Anyone want to provide suggestions ?  please do so. I fear the ESL's have run their course in that space. 

Acoustat Model 3 - before and after below.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pj6CatGugWMC8au9

Cheers.   

ct0517

Center
Owner
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables - rewrite 2019 - includes original text with hindsight.  

1) The Room and Hearing Differences 

An analogy first about sound we hear. 
When you have a car you can drive it around all day and night, for weeks and it can seem ok, mechanically speaking, to you. Has one noticed what happens when you drive down an alley way at night or up/down one of those tight narrow parking ramps with the windows open ? All of a sudden you start hearing noises, if,  there are any issues. It could be brake pads rubbing, it could be a wheel bearing. It may also be a belt near the engine. Unless you are driving in this type of environment any problems may not manifest themselves in a more...open area, until it gets bad - loud - enough. 

Why am I talking about this? Well if you want to find out if your car is ok – drive down an alley at night with the windows open. Ok - but for this hobby?  Audio Rooms are no different. Over the years I have had the exact same gear in different rooms. All different presentations and sounds. This formed my opinion for the importance of the Room. I also at one time had three rooms set up concurrently - 2010 era . One of the rooms, my dedicated one, I have had since the fraternal twins were 1 year old 1995. The room helped me to raise them.... 8^0 .....by keeping me sane. It was nicknamed Dads Hole. 
The Panic Room. 

Now the interesting thing about Dad's Hole is that it is longer and narrower about 13 x 24 ft, with 8 foot ceilings. Multiple speakers have been set up in many configurations over the years. Long Wall, Short Wall.  Nearfield always tells the best story with music for me. Try to picture listening to Acoustat Spectra 33 in nearfield. Two big headphones.

Short Wall Set up Shooting Down the Room; 

When set up on the short wall shooting down the room (like the Alley Way), I can hear things in that room better than any other room in the house. The short wall configuration became the permanent setup many years ago. So I personally believe that 1) Listening in nearfield allows you to hear more and better, before reflections occur, obscuring the sound and 2) The narrow "alley way" in the room increases the audibility of sounds - good and bad. I believe this point 2, was a contributing factor in my findings here.  

2) What Method of Turntable Testing Led to my Personal Findings.   

My personal findings have been through my own number of carts, tonearms and tables - in my own space. Not at shows, or dealer salons, or other folks set ups, and or reviews.   In the end once my tonearm was chosen, my experiments were with putting the same two tonearms, cartridges, set up well, on different tables and hearing.... "this" ......after various modifications.  
Better ----> Worse --------> Better -----> Different -------> Better --------> Different ------> Worse ---------> Better

(one should always end up with better in the end)    8^0

Showed me very clearly how much role the table itself plays.  In fact based on my findings.      
IMO, the better table, with a better tonearm and modest cartridge, "set up well" ...... WILL..... outperform a very expensive cart on a more modest table and tonearm.  No question. 

Lesson learned. 

So IMO,  one should in general if starting out on an Audiophile Journey;  stick with modest cartridges first, and learn the table, tonearm relationship. Settle on a combo. Then go to town if you desire on different carts.  I do not deny that every cartridge one puts on, changes the sound dramatically. I just think it is much easier and makes more sense to change out carts over whole turntables and tonearm setups.  With that if I ever get a another cart, a London is at the top of the list - its unique and its designer, used an air bearing linear tracker for its design.    

All cartridges are on a continual decline with hours played from Day One.  Whereas  I expect my turntable, and tonearm to outlast me.  Reminds me of the shoes I use for running. Expensive, and the support only lasts about 400 miles, and then they needed changing or you are going to experience knee, hip, feet and other issues.     

It should be noted that my tonearm of choice is a design that I can mount any cart on that I want. Eminent Technology ET 2.5.   It can be configured to accept and be compatible with MM and MC carts. 

3) Turntable Testing Method  

During this same period I ran three turntables, in my dedicated room, side by side with the same tonearm and cartridge, wiring and hooked up to the same pre/phono. One turntable was my personal custom direct drive, Technics SP10 II, the other a custom belt drive eventually modded with thread - VPI TNT. Third a a 100 lb Lenco idler built by Jean Nantais. This Lenco used to be his personal reference table, and was used to develop his Reference Model. I acquired it through a friend of his in Ottawa, Ontario.     

They were tested two at a time. Two ET2 tonearms, same cartridge, same wiring. All I needed to do was unplug the wires and switch tables. . 
They were run against each other and also against 15 IPS master tape copies.
Against tape all I needed to do was start the tape, then the record 15 - 20 seconds later then toggle between the two, adjusting for volume as tape is a high level source.  
With the same tonearm, wiring and cartridge, same gear, same room,  very big differences became obvious in the music presentation between the tables...as an audiophile might expect.
The results I got,  eventually helped and contributed in my decision on a final table.

4) How the tables were set up. 

Three turntables were set up in a way that best supported their design. 

Idler Drive - On brass cones connected to a hard surface as designed by its maker Jean Nantais. The massive specially designed plinth provides the damping and isolation.  

Belt Drive - Plinth Supported by Massive Pneumatic AT-616 footers. Stock Motor isolated by Belt then modified to thread.  

Direct Drive.  After multiple trials, the final version Motor/Platter supported by Stainless Steel Pillars,  with a Massive Brass Armpod isolating the tonearm and cartridge from the motor.  Minimal plinth design. 

5) Direct Findings 

Idler 

The Lenco idler has a "Formula One Motor " (quote by A. Salvatore) 

with 

a "drive system wheel and rod that is very Flintstone like and feels disconnected" (quote CT0517).

So a very slick Swiss Built motor but its power is transmitted through an archaic drive "IMO" mechanism.  wheel with rod and is subject to vibrations and noise.   

They are a lot of fun and remind me of big American iron cars from the 70's.  Great in a straight line, Hit that first curve however, and you realize their Achilles Heel is bad brakes.  In the stock speed setting for 33 1/3 mine runs a bit fast.  

From an audiophile perspective most noticeable on Classical music with big dynamic swings, meaning big groove modulations,  followed by small ones; they can't slow down fast enough and generate in the music produced, that phenomena, music feeling, that I read people describe as "PRAT".     

They are noisier compared to the other drive types and will generate feedback with the wrong cartridge due to lack of motor isolation. This is one of the reasons a massive plinth is required to dampen the vibrations.    

Still ......for a brief  period when first introduced in my room, became the standard to shoot for.  Proving that even though the design suggests less than optimum results - a tweaked out Idler can be your final table.  Again my Jean Nantais Lenco relies on the massive plinth for damping. It's 100 lbs and there are huge cavities/spaces under each tonearm armboard and the platter.... for isolation ! 


Direct Drive 
The best at speed control if that is your objective, their Achilles heel being they  try too hard IMO to maintain the correct speed. The constant back and forth of the motor speed controller setup, results in the driest of sounds between the three,  and sounding the most like digital. So the SP10MKII sounds like it is just trying too hard to be accurate.  I think it needs a little LESS CORRECTION, and still be able to maintain Speed Stability to make it better.  It's a balance.  And I believe that the SP10 series which was very popular in radio stations, was geared toward robustness and speed stability.   

Belt Drive
For a hobby that is flawed with an imperfect source, the record, and the vibrations and noise inherent induced in playback, the isolated motor belt drive seems a practical design.  Its Achilles Heel,  IMO the opposite of the Idler Drive,  in that it sounds the most to me like, it is "Riding the Brakes"  compared to the others ;  is affected most by stylus drag and record irregularities. With that however,  if a motor controller, platter design and drive  belt is used that minimizes stylus drag and record irregularities, it has great potential and can overcome the "Riding of the Brake" ,  and can sound IMO the most like real Music flowing. 
See picture 28 of my virtual system.  


Goldilocks Decision 
In the end, for me,  my tweaked out TNT with string drive ended up edging out - trumping - the Idler and Direct Drive in my room, and resulted in enough "pros", that convinced me to look for a string drive designed table as my last table.  
All three turntables were great in their own way and IMO can be ones final table,  especially if this is really about the music, and not the gear itself.  For myself, I was in the Audiophilia Nervosa phase back in those years,  and it was not until the Verdier was introduced into my room;  a WOW moment for me from the first album, and the period in time when I realized the turntable search was over for myself. I had reached the end of the road with this marvel. Even though it is a design that begs the Audiophile for tweaking as all its parts are exposed, and easy to access. My desire for more experimentation was satisfied.  The satisfied feeling still exists today, but I do enjoy working with others in their audio journey. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
It seems to have vanished from the internets.
If you are still out there... Would you be willing to send me any info about what you discovered?"
Best, 
Patrick

Hi Patrick - thx for your post. 

Much was lost or made difficult to find under the virtual systems here when Audiogon went to their new format couple years back.  The virtual system were not priority. For example - Picture links to one's virtual system information from the general forums is no longer possible now.  google link attached 


The storyline picture behind Goldilocks and the Three Turntables is now under picture 8 in my virtual system above. I have had other requests in the past along with yours.  I can recreate my turntable journey and reason for final table selection here in my next post.  It will be based on the following parts from previous information and current thoughts - hindsight. 
    
1) The Room and Hearing Differences 
2) What method of Turntable testing led to my Personal Findings.  
3) Turntable Design Differences  
4) How the tables were setup. 
5) Direct Findings - The results I got,  Helping me in my final table selection.
Stay tuned... 
**************************************************************************

ct0517

Center
Owner
Winter 2019 close out post. 

Added a picture of Katya, new to us (Savannah cat), pictured with my Acoustat ESL Model 3 speakers.  See last picture in virtual system. The Acoustat have been resurrected in the same room that is now currently being used as an Exercise room.  We got Katya late fall 2018.   Should I be worried about the ESL cloth grills ? 

My Music Reference RM9 went down on me - a bad power tube - so I have been forced to buy 8 KT88's --  OUCH.  Not good with the current Canadian American dollar Exchange.  

Waiting for their arrival so I can insert that RM9 amp with the Acoustat first, to try them out.  This should be the last re-tube for that amp.    
***********************
Internet Streaming 

Have been enjoying   -  Venice Classic Radio from Italy

https://www.veniceclassicradio.eu/

Sound quality decent, Selections, Variety, No commercials  
The Italian feed shows you a picture of the album with full details.
A visual is good, because if I like what I am hearing, it allows me to go look and see if I have that album for playing in my room;  as I attempt ....8^(..... to get through the LP collection.   

Happy Listening to everyone and welcome Spring 

****************************

ct0517

Center
Owner
Multiple Point - Ground Syndrome Zombies. (aka as Ground Hum)

We have all had them. So what to do ?  
First what are these Zombies? 

When two or more devices (preamp, cd, dac, tape, etc.. ) are connected to a common ground through different paths, ground path noise, or a ground loop can occur. 
Recent discussions about ground hum with a friend in an established system that was quiet before (for a long time), prompted this post. I hope it helps anyone reading since ground hum is like a cancer in this audio hobby.  
These Zombies can surface with two devices connected to the same outlet and multiple outlets.  When looking at multiple outlets, if the ground points are measured the voltages between them is never exactly the same, even with dedicated circuits.  These variances can when grabbed by the audio signal produce the ground hum.  If ....the hum is not coming from the device itself.  Everyone should measure the voltage from different outlets in a room.     

A Personal Example. 
In my Room A things were quiet for a long time. When I added the ARC DAC years ago and plugged it into a dedicated outlet, same one used by the ARC preamp; I got a terrible ground hum. There are three dedicated lines in that room. It didn't matter. Same hum result. WTH I thought to myself. If I lifted the DAC ground with a cheater plug  - the hum disappeared. But you can't run this way as it is dangerous. 
A way around might be a device like this 



I then decided to use the 3 prong power outlet on the back of the power supply for my ARC preamp. Bingo. Hum disappeared. 

IMO 
This audio business, audio manufacturers went backwards when they removed power inputs from the back of preamp power supplies and forced people to use separate multiple outlets, creating multiple ground points for their input devices.  They released the ground point Zombies. 

Who knows how some of these room's electrical connections are laid out especially if they are not dedicated outlets. The multiple power inputs for devices on back of preamps assured a common single path ground was used. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Just noticed your post Eric.
I need to update all the virtual system pics. They are many years old now.   
Especially the one of me standing behind a previous black Acoustat Spectra 33 speaker. Pic 20. 
Most of hair is grey now. Would really stand out against all the black cloth material.  8^0   ,,,,lol
 

ct0517

Center
Owner
October 2018 

Summer '18 Audio memories.
Helped two millennial's set up systems this summer using vintage acquired gear. One was my son the other his friend. Very enjoyable. 
A good outcome from this was my son has taken a renewed interest in my gear.
Every audiophile's nightmare is leaving gear when we pass on from this earth; and no one in the family has a clue to the gears worth.  We went through both of my rooms and put price tags on the gear. I then showed him what was hiding behind the curtains and in the drawers. The look on his face was priceless.    
Couple standouts - 
He was totally floored by the innards of the Studer tape machine. The circuit / layout precision unmatched.   
He also couldn't believe the new prices on my reference turntable, tonearm and cart - used to play .......... a simple record. 
I told him not to worry and while I was still around he was free to take the stored Jean Nantais Idler with Dynavector tonearm if he wanted to get into vinyl.     
As the weather turns colder I am looking at the walls of LP's in different rooms, and with my main objective still being trying to get through as many them as possible;  I can't recall where I left off last spring.   8^(
Happy Music Listening 

ct0517

Center
Owner
August 2018 -  Summer Update. 

I got a couple inquiries into why my Audiogon Avatar went from the animated Runner......to a running Wile E Coyote. 

AudioGon is an Audiophile site, so......

I decided to make my Avatar into something symbolic of AudioGon and therefore the Audiophile 

Why Wile E Coyote ?  

He is always Chasing ...never Gettting.     8^0

************************************

Wife's LP find. 

Last week while on facebook my wife told me someone had records for pick up. 3 boxes worth so probably around 300. I was leery and even though I have more records that I could listen to in multiple lifetimes, the thought of finding one or two gems is always alluring. Part of this vinyl disease. 

So I told her "yeah sure lets go over". Worse case I bring 'em home, pick through them, and drop them off at the good will. What I found were three U-Haul boxes labelled Gran's records.  Half the records were Classical - never played from a quick visual.  A few box sets.  A set of Funk and Wagnalls Classical - maybe 20 records. The rest of the Classical were individual titles and in never what appears never played condition. The rest were old country, brass, some pop/rock and the usual Good Will popular finds. But interestingly these were all in mint condition too.  Surprising. 

A very hot and humid summer here so far.  Conducive to being on the water and drinking beer ...on the dock.  Campfires up north at our cottage have been banned due to the dryness.  The eventual cooler air to come will spell the return to more serious music listening for me in my rooms.      

Hope everyone is well. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Harry and Dan.  

re: the subs. IMO  anytime one can you set levels down on subs - the better it is. Less of a bass wave exciting the room.  No one can tell where the low bass is coming from when set below  100 hz.  So if one can get away with nearfield placement ....  

So on either side of the listening couch, the subs are just coasting at the loudest  music passages , working less and they will last longer as well, as the vibration from the woofers, and heat from the internal amps is less on the circuit board solder joints.  I know of folks whose subs have gone down due to a cracked circuit board solder joint. The manufacturer has no interest in repair and wants them to buy new.  Placing an amp inside a box with woofer really doesn't make sense. And these Dynaudio's have Class A/B amps not D.  So heat is a factor. They have the FINS  on back to help with cooling. But the FINS are not even warm in the new position.  This is a WIN / WIN situation. 

re;  the Nearfield sub phase setup. 

Placing ones finger on the woofer next to you, while the sub plays is an easy way to tell if its pulses are in sync with the main speakers bass.  Do it by feel.    
***************

The gear in Room 2 is in a bit of a mess right now as I had to bring the preamp out to allow the L and R output signal cables to reach the subs on both sides of the listening couch.  In an Audiophile sense the Quads being ESL's are directional and not as affected as much by gear/stands beside them, but this needs to be sorted out.  Sort of messy right now, but as I am listening, it sounds great, and I don't see the mess.  lol

I did also add a projection screen to that room a while back that pulls down when needed then disappears when not being used.  Maybe some pics when everything is cleaned up. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
June 2018 

Have been using Room # 2 Quad 57 / Dynaudio Bm12s - (Two of them), for the last week;  even with my wife home upstairs..... and she has been complaining about the bass.  The sub on the right side happens to be directly under the room she uses upstairs.  

So I relocated both subs to the other side of the room on either side of the main listening couch. I have used this type of Sub set up before when I had one sub in that room. Same results but better. Was able to turn the levels down on  the Subs three notches.  Changing the phase to 180 degrees completed the setup.  I now get all the bass I want at higher listening levels and I do not encroach on her space. (at least not as much :^0 )  Subs are set to 60 hz and down.   The Quad 57's are run full out on the Music Reference RM10.    

This is the advantage of having separate subs. A problem with using full range speakers like the Matrix 800's is that you are forced to position them for imaging and bass response, at the same time. Some rooms make this difficult. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
May 2018 

This is a true story. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. 

"George and his Records -  Audiophile beginnings". 

George had one turntable, one tonearm, one cartridge, and collection of a 1000 records of which 10% or 100 ..... were pulled from the shelves next to him, cleaned and available for listening.  The titles of the 100 Records  would change as time went by. Records would get taken from the 1000, and interchanged with these 100 records. George found 100 records manageable.   He called these his "ready to play" records, and the music on  these specific records represented his current state of mind and being. The focus of his record playing was the music on the records themselves.  George is a Music Lover.  

One day George visited an Audio Salon and he was intrigued by the gear that he saw in there.  So intrigued, that he ended up buying another tonearm and cartridge to put on his turntable.  Now George noticed that this second tonearm and cartridge changed his record playing behavior. Instead of just listening to his records as he always did;  he was now intrigued by the different sounds that the new tonearm and cartridge was making in his room compared to the old setup.  This was very interesting to him. He would switch from his old tonearm/cartridge to the new combo and back again. This new behavior, went unnoticed by George at first. His interest in hearing the different sounds from both tonearms, cartridges,  meant that he was also now going through a smaller sample of the records;  maybe 20 of the 100 ready play records. There was just no time to hear more of them. This didn't bother George as he was having so much fun. So much fun in fact,  that George decided he was going to add a third tonearm/cartridge.  

Well with the three tonearms and cartridges set up,  George was now down to a rotation of only 5 records.  George was fascinated with the different sounds each produced on the same record.  He even bought extra copies of the same album to play repeats on the different tonearms/carts, one at a time, so he could hear the differences.  His wife Wendy, now noticed that he was starting to replay songs more and more. She started to get a  little worried, but as he was in the house with her, and not in a bar with friends drinking,  she did not approach him or worry too much about it.    

George had now reached a level where he could tell the strengths and weaknesses of each of the tonearms/cart combos in his system kit, in his room,  when playing same records.  He could feel and see  the differences in the gear builds, and the resulting differences in sound they made. George was now listening to the gear, the equipment, and no longer to the music on the records themselves.  The records had become but another piece of gear.  The focus of his record playing was now the gear, and hearing differences between the different tonearm/cartridge components.  George was having a lot of fun.

One day, George thought to himself...... I wonder if I changed that speaker for .......

.........Audiophile Beginnings   

ct0517

Center
Owner
April 2018 

Sold the B&W 801 that I was storing for my son.  Not really the type of speaker you would store for your daughter, right ? His sister is a fraternal twin.  Anyway.  

Came to the realization that if he (23 years now) ever gets an apartment one day and moves out;  those speakers  will probably get him kicked out. Plus he will be needing me to supply everything in front of them in the space.  
I have had him and friends in both rooms listening to LP's, Tape, and Digital. I have also let him play his music in Room 1 from his device, or stream from his online source through my dedicated music server laptop, connected to the ARC DAC 8.  

So what's not to like ? 

The room has no mobility.  Cannot follow him around.  :^(   

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - Audiogoneer  Banquo363 found this unit for me. I have been using its smaller brother the Aridyne 3000 for 10? years now. A pic of it is in my virtual system. I got this one for a couple hundred dollars, but being in Canada I paid a King's ransom to bring it here from the US.  :^( 

They can be found on Ebay and Medical reseller websites but they usually have anywhere from 5000, 10000, or more hours on them, after coming to the end of their lease, rental. They get bought by these surplus dealers from hospitals and resold. The less than 300 hours on this one and knowing how well they work, it was one I could not pass up. 

Higher hours are not an issue as they are designed to be run 24 /7 - so using them for a 6-8 hour music listening session is nothing. Being on castors they can placed anywhere and moved around. It uses a coalescing filter system so it doesn't need an external condensation system, making it pretty much plug and play.   The actual air pump is suspended by springs !  

ct0517

Center
Owner
March 2018 

Added the Timeter Aridyne 2000 for use with my Eminent Technology 2.5 tonearm.

I found this unit with only 289 hours on it.   




ct0517

Center
Owner
Feb 2018 

When the box for the Ultrasonic Cleaning tank bath arrived last year, it came in a non descript brown generic looking box with small labels.  It came a week before my wife's birthday.  

My wife intercepted the courier, I was not home. She opened it and thought I had bought her a deep fryer for her birthday.  She called me about it sounding disappointed.
  
"Did you really get me a deep fryer for my birthday"  ? 

Without thinking I said the first thing that came to me 

"no it's not for your birthday,  it's for cleaning the records" 

Bad answer. Still not out of that hole yet.   

********

My kids brought some nasties home late in the year and made me sick.  Took two weeks to get over.  OD'ed on Netflix 

By mid January was finally in a state of mind to plow through some of this un played record collection. I will continue to do so until the weather makes it possible for me to float on the water again. The ground hog has predicted another 6 weeks of winter. Shoveling, Cleaning and Listening will help pass the time.  

ct0517

Center
Owner
Added a picture of Bruce'  long I Beam on the custom ET 2.5 tonearm that he built for me.  See second pic, after the pic of Lucky staring down the horn.  
Hope everyone is doing well from a health and music listening perspective.  
Prepping for the second half of summer here.    

ct0517

Center
Owner

CD player laser module replacement easy ? 

I went  Computer Audio quite a while ago in my main room. But I have a few CD players lying around like everyone else.  My Rega Saturn finally gave up the ghost and Rega support in Canada wanted $300+ and shipping to fix the problem. As an IT Career guy I knew something was up. This did not sound right. 

It uses a Sanyo SF-P101N transport. They are available for $10 bucks from China. So what did I have to lose. I ordered one. The problem is they use Camels to deliver the parts - took over a month to get to me.  But it got here this week. So ? 

I exchanged transports and voila - it works again this Saturn CD player. 
I use it in the Quad setup Room 2. 

In hindsight the transports themselves hardly go bad - its the laser that goes bad. It caused the transport to make noises making you think the transport is no good. 

*********************
Important.  Laser Module Anti Static Solder Point.  

Note: there is an anti static solder point next to the ribbon connector on the laser module that needs to be removed before using the new laser. If you order an entire transport you will need to remove the laser module in order to get access,  to remove the solder point.  if you try to use the new Laser without taking out the solder point you will get a No Disc Message on your player. 

This video shows how to remove the anti static solder point allowing the laser to function.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTYxo3F_YIA

This link tells you what kind of DAC and transport your CD Player uses. 

http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/

Happy Listening

ct0517

Center
Owner
Added Lucky to the gear component list. He will be acting in the capacity of the RCA Victor dog. Lucky is half Jack Russell, and half Chihuahua. 

History from His Master's Voice painting.
The original RCA Victor dog was called Nipper, and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895.He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Kitty Adventures - Mid Winter 2017 Post 

Hello fellow Music Lovers and Audiophiles

This post attempts to answer the mystery question "Where did my turntable drive system go"

Some background first 

When building out Room A in 1994, the ceiling venting system for the Heating and Air Conditioning was blocked off and plugged in this basement space...in order to  better insulate and isolate the room from the rest of the house. Meaning one wife and less than a year old fraternal twins.  The result of this isolation/insulation... is that during the colder winter days, the door leading to the room needs to be left open to help heat the room. Not normally a problem. But ever since our daughter started travelling abroad, we have been babysitting her Bengal kitty see Pic 40/41.  

....and the situation changed.

The first clue ....was finding an Amperex Bugle Boy tube in the middle of Room A on the carpet. Tracing back this audio tube made its way to this spot only after - being removed from its wrapping on the back work bench ....dodging thick speaker cables and 1st, the large Krell amplifier, followed by the Krell bass Alignment filter to its final resting spot 6 feet away. The tube traveled approximately 15 feet. 

I was alarmed to discover this about a month ago; but I took no real action and decided I better make sure the door at the top of the stairs, remained closed whenever the bottom Room A basement door was left open. I don't think my wife read the memo. 

*****************************
The lead up:

I had been enjoying Room B over the holidays (I call it the Quad Room) with company and the larger space.  I was getting ready to transition to Room A for some "please help me get through this winter" musical experiences. Gear was powered up and allowed to warm up. Krell amp needs 24 hours of standby mode after being dormant for multiple days to come to life.  I warmed up with some digital first and then I was ready - time for the vinyl fix.  I head back to the deepest part of the basement where the Timeter air compressor lives, and flick the switch which brings the ET 2.5 tonearm to life. Head back over to Room A, walk over to La Platine to start it up, and discover .........the silk thread drive has disappeared !  Vanished !!

Panic sets in....I look again..... the cartridge cantilever/stylus is still intact....I look again.... the exposed naked one shot wiring has not being disturbed.......I breathe a sigh of relief.  Then I get curious.

I look and I look, but cannot find the silk thread that has vanished.....         

Hmmm....

****************************

Took two minutes to put on some new silk thread.  

The mystery of the missing silk thread has still not been resolved.  My wife is shown another copy of the memo. 

Peace and happy listening.  

ct0517

Center
Owner
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/download/file.php?id=12556

previous link did not work. trying another one. 
unfortunately the virtual system does not let you preview. 




ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Dave 

"The guy in one ad says that they work best at the top of the range (15kg). 
Don't think the TNT sans motor weighs near 120 lbs.  Your opinion on this?"

Regarding the working weight for the AT616's. I did some digging. See this link.


if you scroll down that ad you will see the seller has included the actual tech specs page from AT. 

It says working weight for a set of 4 is 22 to 132 lbs.  

I did use them successfully with the TNT.  These days I am using three of them with the Sp10 which if you include the SP10 unit weight, 4 solid stainless steel columns, plus the heavy platform they join to,  the weight is probably in the upper range when using three of them.  
   
I think the AT 616 isolators are very good and keepers, meaning they are the type of product that even if you replace them with something else later, you will keep them to use elsewhere.  Hmmm..... I think this basic philosophy is how I ended up with what I own.  You should see what is in the drawers.  8^0 

Looking at them, there is no way you, I or someone else can have them made at those prices.  They are substantial on their own. The TNT sounded very good with them.  Just as important to me, the AT616's and also the pneumatic footers that my Verdier came with; their settings have not been touched n years and they are still level.  Very important as you know for an air bearing tonearm.  So that's the kind of quality I am looking for. 

I never went with the VPI air bladder option on the TNT. I recall folks saying they leak and need adjustment. This turned me off them. I am hard on my gear, it needs to last, and I don't like anything to leak, break down, go out of alignment, etc...   Reliability is important.   

Also you mentioned reasonable prices.  We know this is relative and depends on who you are talking to.  For example from this past summer I am reminded of something.  Now if I told some of the guys I hang with at the lake, I am spending $500 to buy new feet for my turntable they would look at me funny.  But these same guys easily toss $500 toward a different prop for their boat.  One that will let them maybe get out of the hole quicker to pull skiers, or maybe the other type for top speed.   Now their wives look at them funny, and the changes in the boat performance with different props can be subtle,  just like tweaks in this audio hobby.   
Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
"I have to admit to coveting those pneumatic bladder feet on your TNT. Unobtainium? "

Dave  after I sold the TNT I started using them under the SP10 setup.   
See pic 21 of 41 in the Audiogon Collage.  Oh and see if you can spot some fun in that pic :^)   

If you really want these footers   

on ebay 



on usaudiomart


this reminds me. 

Once I experimented and stuffed the TNT Pods with Blue Tack - took alot of Blue Tack !
The plinth got dampended so much the music ended up sounding like it was coming from downunder; and I am not referring  to Australia or NZ.  I mean where the horny red guy lives...... 8^0  

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Dave 
thx for your comments. :^)  and Happy Canadian Thanksgiving. 

Re; Gene at TakeFive Audio 

I agree, great guy he has made a number of looms for me and I have referenced a number of audio friends to him.  I went back to my emails because I had asked him how he builds up the wire going into those very heavy WBT Nextgens. His response to me from a number of years ago. 
"For those WBT's the buildup was done with several layers of shrinktube. The first piece is 1/16" CPX 100 Black, you have to be EXTREMELY careful when applying heat so that you do not fuse the insulation together on the wires. From there it is built up using 1/4" and 3/8" CPA type shrinktube with the last piece covering the first two for an overall clean stepped appearance."

Re: my loom

In the first picture you can see I leave the wire on the outside of ET 2.5 armtube.  That happens to be the Magnesium armtube.   I realize it is not the cleanest or nicest looking way to do it, but looks are not that critical to me. With the wire running on outside I am able to change out armtubes or carts really quickly if I wanted to.  The ARC preamp sits right next to the ET 2.5 so the direct shot wiring is a short 24 inches. I sit within arms reach of the ARC preamp controls.  The ET 2.5 sits on the Verdier elevated armboard, this works well as the wire drops to a happy smile where it connects to the platform where my preamp sits.  Large Flat Plinths present challenges for tonearms like the ET where the wiring setup will affect its performance.  The ET tonearm is also a totally different design approach to the Kuzma Airline which needs its wiring and air tube on its moving manifold for damping. As we know the ET's manifold and airtube line is stationary. 
 
Re the TNT thread drive. The audiogon collage of pictures shows the picture numbers in the top left. The picture you reference with the TNT pulleys in use is 20/41 and it is an earlier picture. I did end up removing the pulleys and if u look at picture 27/41 it shows the final setup including the pneumatic footers on the TNT.  The pulleys will introduce noise but they also lessen the pull on the platter.  I did get best results from memory without the pulleys. 

Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner

Hi Dan 

The prevailing message in my system description is that. ... the "Gear" is just a means to the end. Blessed is the music lover that reaches the end point without spending thousands. If this person frequents Audiogon .......good luck to you. :^)

Some hindsight in reaching the end based on my personal experience.   

Once you have a 2 channel stereo system "kit" that is at a point that sounds great to you in your room. Move that kit in whole including all cabling to 3 or 4 different rooms and see what happens.......:^)

The room ......is indeed the Elephant. 

Happy Listening  

ct0517

Center
Owner
Updates !!

My system description and some thoughts.  So I got a little corny.... Maybe this comes with age ?  

Some New Pics  - including..... Koaltar and Bee Bee (my daughters Bengal)  
See 2nd and 3rd last pictures, next to the last picture of the Quad room.  

*******************************************************************************

So getting prepared for colder weather serious listening for late 2016 

 >>>>>  into 2017 (God willing)  

and re-starting my Records Reorganization Project 

(see 2nd picture but with warning - it is not a pretty site)  A daunting task? 

This reorganizations objectives, which include my wife not finally trying to do me in (divorcing me), is in order to do more learning of composers, their music, and the music enjoyment that will come from that  :^)
This will also be a welcome change from the summer time music I have mostly been listening to up north - the kind that goes well with Beer and Campfires. 

Re: the thread - How to Best Organize the Classical Record Collection. 

Look for updates on how I am dealing with the challenges that only a Classical Record Collection brings (whether your collection is vinyl, digital or both)

Happy Listening.  

ct0517

Center
Owner
Added updated pics of my "in progress" LP reorganization project. 
I am getting there. I also started a thread to give me better ideas on how to organize the classical music. It has been very helpful. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-ways-to-organize-a-classical-record-lp-collection

Happy Listening. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Likewise Dan. Its too bad for all the virtual communications with many Audio buddies due to the distances. But we also know "virtual" means we have all made Audio Buddies around the world. AudioGon virtual systems help to bridge the gap.  

Speaking of buddies;  my bud Koaltar is forced to listen from the head of the stairs. Just too many hairs unfortunately.  This is too bad because he would just park himself next to me and not move. Probably add in some dampening with his 77 lbs. My daughters' Bengal kitty has been in both rooms. As a kitten she would use the rows of vinyl in Room A as a highway which was kind of cool to watch as she stepped over Beethoven, then Miles.  then N Young, then A Winehouse  to N Merchant, ......:^) 
But now she is just too fast and can get into too much trouble especially with the Verdier/ET 2.5 turntable setup which is on a longer low platform only 17 inches off the floor. I have seen her jump 4 feet so this represents a real danger. Nothing like a cat taking out your turntable/cartridge.  She likes long string  :^(       

re: Dynaudio BM12s
We know we are at the mercy of the sound engineer on every recording we listen to. The BM12s are able to do four presets with the remote from the listening position to compensate for different music genres - good and bad recordings (i.e. too much or too little bass). The remote allows for selection of crossover point, and phase control, db level, extension, all from the listening position. Just push one of four presets when done. No more need for an audio friend to adjust the sub settings, and then you scream at him 
" that's it, stop there ! ".  Its a one person operation now.  Its db levels are a push of the (+) or (-)  button, the light blinks once which means 1 db up or down. You have a range of 20 db with it.    

In contrast, Room A's Matrix 800 speaker system is a passive 4 sub system - Two high subs two low for 2 channel music. Two sets of bass waves go out canceling each other - leaving behind musical notes. The speakers looks intimidate but they are very room friendly. You can unplug the top woofer to see how much effect it has on the room. I could probably move them back toward the front wall more with no bass issues, but this would obviously reduce the music depth. 

ct0517

Center
Owner

Quad 57 Room B Subwoofers Result

 

I found Two New Old Stock (NOS) - Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s in a recording studio. Never out of the boxes.On paper for my needs they are; 18hz - 60 hz with 4th order Linwitz- Riley crossovers.


  • Linkwitz-Riley crossovers match attenuation slopes so that system response is flat at crossover point.
  • Butterworth crossovers yield to a peak at the crossover frequency.
  • Bessel crossovers have a frequency response between Linkwitz-Riley and Butterworth crossovers.

So the Dynaudio BM12s crossovers have a flat response where cutoff is applied. This, plus being a sealed box design made them appear to be a really good match for my Wayne PK Quad 57's. Quick and no cone bass past 60 hz.  They house 250 watt amps @4 ohms which from the size of the heat sinks I assume is Class A/B.  Most of the other subs I looked at were high wattage Class D designs..  

 

The numbers matched up, so I made the drive out there. I brought the two home and tried them out. I did find them very punchy, clean, and quick. They go really low and keep up with the 57's on kick drums and other low bass. A good ergonomic match (to my eyes) with my raised Wayne PK Quad 57's. The subs are placed under them with the woofer cones forward of the actual Quad 57 panels - for now. This sets the sub phase alignment at "0" 

 

here is what the set up looks like.

https://goo.gl/photos/FKfPst7tZSmDMUhV8


I am not able to preview a post on the system thread. if the direct link doesn't work see the last bottom picture of my virtual system page - the one to the right of the Bengal kitty :^).  .

 

The Dynaudio's use a thick credit card sized remote control for configuring them.  ( don't lose it ).   

 

A little strange how all this came about. This was a good 6 month plus search. The Dynaudio BM12s were a real dark horse that just appeared out of the blue toward the end. For those following, the other subs I was seriously considering were JL Audio, REL, Rhythmik and Seaton. Rhythmik and Seaton are very hard to find used in Canada, and I was not willing to pay 30 points on the Canada US dollar difference, plus shipping, customs and duties on them for new ones. I did manage to find a used Seaton Submersive for sale;  but when I went to hear it, I found out it had issues with the original smaller Seaton amp it came with clipping. This was revealed to me by the owner who had the smaller amp exchanged for the larger Seaton amp. But this meant the condition of the driver's voice coil was suspect. I passed on it.  The only REL sub I would buy are the older ones Made in the UK. This means their physical condition would be ?? and repairs would need to be made at a third party repair shop. So knowing the previous owner/s is important

 

The Recording Studio gave me a warranty on the two NOS Dynaudio BM12s.  Room B is pretty much complete now as far as gear goes. Maybe I will I start finishing touches on the actual room.  

ct0517

Center
Owner
Quad 57 Room B Subwoofer Project Update

Would welcome comments from members who are familiar with the various drivers types and amps for subwoofers.  (Plate amps versus external ones?)

The Requirement - Two nearfield subs, on both sides of my listening position to be used 50 hz and down.  A picture of the space has been uploaded to my virtual system link showing previous subs locations and the current location that is working really well. 
 
So been in research mode reviewing both finished products various brands and the DIY route.  Vandersteen was deleted as its design requires one to go through its crossover first before the Music Reference RM10 amp. I discovered that REL have moved operations to China and their former employees in England have started up MJ Acoustics.  It remains an option used.  JL Audio is powering my sons standalone two woofer box in his vehicle :^).  

I have found a local Carpenter / Speaker builder that has a good reputation and builds nice looking boxes, lots of finishes to spec. He could do the whole thing or I would assemble the Driver and Plate Amp to the boxes he builds. Seems like a plug and play thing, no brainer ? Am I wrong ?  This would make the Rythmik products very attractive  - if not for our dollar, shipping customs, etc...  :^(

on a sidenote
As a url link happy forum poster I have been told by Audiogon that the links in my thread here will be restored so they work. Its on the schedule. But the main forums are the priority understandably. 

ct0517

Center
Owner
A big thank you to Tammy and the AudioGon staff team (web developers) for helping me to get my virtual system under control. The new format for some reason caused it to explode - some entries and pictures were repeated as many as 20 times.  My virtual systems page has been edited and cleaned up. 
As a poster who really likes to include links and pictures in his posts;  I am hoping the (url link) feature is restored here, along with the ability to see the previous url links, from previous posts, mine and others.  Happy Listening 

ct0517

Center
Owner
Have any audiogon members with virtual systems, checked out their virtual system on the new Beta system going live at the end of the month ? Those who happen to come upon mine, if you can find it, will not be faulted for thinking they have entered into the Dog World Forum.

Yup - its true. Seems my Bud Koaltar is now my main system page and I can't move him. Sort of like walking him sometimes. I think someone on the Audiogon staff likes dogs. Cool. Some of the emails between us were very funny - lol. You may have noticed my last few pic links on this thread were from Google and not Audiogon. I love pictures to make a point. The Beta Virtual System has not only made Koaltar the Alpha over me; its also duplicated the many attachments I stored there which were sorted into categories to help with posts on forums. :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - One of the great things about the LFT is it's main panel reproducing such a large portion of the sound of music, without a x/o in the 275Hz-10kHz range.
Yeah.
I originally bought the ET speakers for a space in Toronto (born and raised there). I was spending quite a bit of time down there with work and care of elderly parents. The guy I had bought my ET Lft8a from was living in a place with a shared thin wall to the neighbor. He had to disconnect the woofers at night when listening and the reason he was selling them. This (listening without the woofers) would not have been possible without the main & tweeter panels reproducing so much of the music as you say Eric. They sounded so good down there that I had to bring them home to hear. Everything ends up going through Room A with me :^) and mostly nearfield. That Room A has not only probably (so far) saved my marriage, but also thousands and thousands of audiophile dollars. When you have a dedicated space ,and you get the audiophile itch; all you have to do is move the speakers around and you are saying - Holy crap what a difference (maybe good - maybe bad) lol ... if good .....you are set for the next few months. Get bored again ...move the speakers placements to the other end of the room. I did this for 10 years ! hell maybe more. All my audio buddies were frequent flyers with speaker wires, interconnects, amps, what have you.... All I did was move the speakers around ! Makes you realize very quickly what the most important thing is in an audio room. The Room. well ..plus the truntable with it fragile wires. The speakers, amps moved....The TT, its wires, preamp stayed put. Never put your TT in the a corner....

It also makes you realize never finish a room acoustically without your speakers in the Room first. Some guys build these elaborate empty rooms, and they have no idea what speakers are going in ---- can you believe it ? Hell , the Matrix 800's affect the sonics of a room just by the space they take up.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I play my 57's with the back grill and burlap & felt removed.
Yeah - Lots of opinions on this one Eric :^)

from the web. Just a few for fun .......

"According to Peter Walker, the damping was put there primarily to control the Q of the fundamental bass resonance. He didn't seem happy with the idea of removing it."

"IMO, there are no real tweaks to make the Quad ESL perform better. Yes, they can be elevated from the floor to get a more realistic soundstage. This tweak will also give you better mid-bass. The middle of the treble panel should be at ear height.

There are two places with damping material: there are some layers of felt behind the treble panel (the element in the middle) which is there to damp the main resonance of this panel. This resonance is out of the pass band but may be exited by the bass panels and can cause the treble panel dustcover to rattle. This felt should not be removed. Then there is a layer of cloth on the back grill of the speaker which is there to lower the Q of the bass panel resonance. Depending on the room and the state that the ESLs are in, removing this cloth may "improve" bass response or not."

"Dustcovers have nothing to do with it, they are more or less acoustically transparent."

"I think the best way to get the most out of your Quads is to first make sure they are operating in good order and second to move them off the floor and experiment with the proper setup for your room/listening position. Another tweak may be to play them without the front grill."

*****************

on a side note
Martin Logans have the cool factor of the see through panel. Some think they actually sound better with backing installed depending on placement. But then the visual cool - they lose. Eric - your ET LFT8b's same story. Have you ever thought of ordering the 8a panels from Bruce, swapping them in and hearing what they sound like ? The ET LFT8 speakers definitely have the visual cool.

Some Facts, some Observations, some Fun

Quad 57 Frequency response
From the Quad 57 manual - New pair of 57's.
45hz - 18khz Rate of attenuation outside band asymptotic is 18 db / 8ve

Now if we were to assume:

1) One has properly functioning panels.

2) A room that lets them breathe away from the front wall plus angling flexibility. This is very important with the recessed tweeter panel between the bass panels. A total opposite design to the tweeter on top of speaker.

3) An amplifier that deals with the speakers unique very high impedance for Bass, and very low impedance for treble.
Quad ESL Impedance

4) The Person's hearing ability still goes to 18 khz ? Btw - One can test their own hearing here with this really fun youtube.
How good can one hear HF ?

IMO - I think if a person can put check marks on all of the four points above, then these speakers are da bomb.....with a nearfield sub/s :^)

But as one can see many hurdles to cross - Oh no ....I forgot one - maybe the biggest one - WAF.

Having fun with the heater radiators :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I didn't ask Roger, but I'll bet he worked on the RM-10 until it could provide a flat frequency response when driving the Quad.
Hi Eric, I am anxious to have you hear music with the RM10, and a single pair of your quads. Hurry up, move house and buy an RM10 already ! lol

Perforated Grill

For those like I that run their 57's naked; this is the material recommended by Kent at Electrostatic Solutions if you are worried about children, pets or a clumsy you ....and the voltage involved.

For those reading that might be thinking what all the fuss is about ?

57 Panels

A pic of one of my 57 speakers. You need to keep your body parts away from the panels that the bottom white wires go to. The tweeter panel can be seen in the middle surrounded by two bass panels. This is direct voltage. The only thing in front of the panels after you remove the protective screens, is a saran wrap like clear dust cover.

Bdp24 - There is a new add-on tweeter that may be great with the Quad---the Townshend Audio Maximum Supertweeter. It's gotten great reviews in Britain.
Tweeter

that's $1600 cdn dollars.

I make an assumption that not many in the UK have heard the RM10/Quad 57 combo.

Roger should take a business trip to the UK packing a couple RM10's. Visit a few Quad 57 owners.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I didn't ask Roger, but I'll bet he worked on the RM-10 until it could provide a flat frequency response when driving the Quad.
Hi Eric, I am anxious to have you hear music with the RM10, and a single pair of your quads. Hurry up, move house and buy an RM10 already ! lol

Perforated Grill

For those like I that run their 57's naked; this is the material recommended by Kent at Electrostatic Solutions if you are worried about children, pets or a clumsy you ....and the voltage involved.

For those reading that might be thinking what all the fuss is about ?

57 Panels

A pic of one of my 57 speakers. You need to keep your body parts away from the panels that the bottom white wires go to. The tweeter panel can be seen in the middle surrounded by two bass panels. This is direct voltage. The only thing in front of the panels after you remove the protective screens, is a saran wrap like clear dust cover.

Bdp24 - There is a new add-on tweeter that may be great with the Quad---the Townshend Audio Maximum Supertweeter. It's gotten great reviews in Britain.
Tweeter

that's $1600 cdn dollars.

I make an assumption that not many in the UK have heard the RM10/Quad 57 combo.

Roger should take a business trip to the UK packing a couple RM10's. Visit a few Quad 57 owners.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I didn't ask Roger, but I'll bet he worked on the RM-10 until it could provide a flat frequency response when driving the Quad.
Hi Eric, I am anxious to have you hear music with the RM10, and a single pair of your quads. Hurry up, move house and buy an RM10 already ! lol

Perforated Grill

For those like I that run their 57's naked; this is the material recommended by Kent at Electrostatic Solutions if you are worried about children, pets or a clumsy you ....and the voltage involved.

For those reading that might be thinking what all the fuss is about ?

57 Panels

A pic of one of my 57 speakers. You need to keep your body parts away from the panels that the bottom white wires go to. The tweeter panel can be seen in the middle surrounded by two bass panels. This is direct voltage. The only thing in front of the panels after you remove the protective screens, is a saran wrap like clear dust cover.

Bdp24 - There is a new add-on tweeter that may be great with the Quad---the Townshend Audio Maximum Supertweeter. It's gotten great reviews in Britain.
Tweeter

that's $1600 cdn dollars.

I make an assumption that not many in the UK have heard the RM10/Quad 57 combo.

Roger should take a business trip to the UK packing a couple RM10's. Visit a few Quad 57 owners.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I didn't ask Roger, but I'll bet he worked on the RM-10 until it could provide a flat frequency response when driving the Quad.
Hi Eric, I am anxious to have you hear music with the RM10, and a single pair of your quads. Hurry up, move house and buy an RM10 already ! lol

Perforated Grill

For those like I that run their 57's naked; this is the material recommended by Kent at Electrostatic Solutions if you are worried about children, pets or a clumsy you ....and the voltage involved.

For those reading that might be thinking what all the fuss is about ?

57 Panels

A pic of one of my 57 speakers. You need to keep your body parts away from the panels that the bottom white wires go to. The tweeter panel can be seen in the middle surrounded by two bass panels. This is direct voltage. The only thing in front of the panels after you remove the protective screens, is a saran wrap like clear dust cover.

Bdp24 - There is a new add-on tweeter that may be great with the Quad---the Townshend Audio Maximum Supertweeter. It's gotten great reviews in Britain.
Tweeter

that's $1600 cdn dollars.

I make an assumption that not many in the UK have heard the RM10/Quad 57 combo.

Roger should take a business trip to the UK packing a couple RM10's. Visit a few Quad 57 owners.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - I didn't ask Roger, but I'll bet he worked on the RM-10 until it could provide a flat frequency response when driving the Quad.
Hi Eric, I am anxious to have you hear music with the RM10, and a single pair of your quads. Hurry up, move house and buy an RM10 already ! lol

Perforated Grill

For those like I that run their 57's naked; this is the material recommended by Kent at Electrostatic Solutions if you are worried about children, pets or a clumsy you ....and the voltage involved.

For those reading that might be thinking what all the fuss is about ?

57 Panels

A pic of one of my 57 speakers. You need to keep your body parts away from the panels that the bottom white wires go to. The tweeter panel can be seen in the middle surrounded by two bass panels. This is direct voltage. The only thing in front of the panels after you remove the protective screens, is a saran wrap like clear dust cover.

Bdp24 - There is a new add-on tweeter that may be great with the Quad---the Townshend Audio Maximum Supertweeter. It's gotten great reviews in Britain.
Tweeter

that's $1600 cdn dollars.

I make an assumption that not many in the UK have heard the RM10/Quad 57 combo.

Roger should take a business trip to the UK packing a couple RM10's. Visit a few Quad 57 owners.

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Halcro - Why don't you contact Richard Vandersteen about the suitability of the 2Wq for the Quads or John at Audio Connection who is an expert.

Hi Henry (Halcro)

There are a number of Vandersteen dealers in Ontario. I spoke with a couple of them today. There is a design issue with the 2wq for my setup that I was not aware of. The 2wq's require you to make the crossover that comes with the 2wq the ALPHA. Meaning outputs coming out of the preamp need to go through the 2wq first; then on to your main amplifier/s and main speakers. I want the Quad 57's running full with the Music Reference RM10 amp. The sub/s running parallel to fill in the lowest octave only when needed. Unfortunately this is not something one can try before you buy.

Also ...my experiences with Rel, ML and HSU have been that the sound is not as good - when your amp that powers the main speakers are receiving signals from an extra box** , unless that box was designed for them specifically - in this case a Music Reference RM10.

** External crossover's, equalizers, Bass Alignment Filters's , etc...

Whatever else happens going forward will need to work in parallel mode. Preamp has two low level outputs. One L-R for the MR RM10 amp and Quad 57's and one extra L-R for one or two subs.

Bdp24 Yeah Chris (saw your name!)
You can call me Chris, you can call me Chrissy. If we meet in person you can call me Christie - but then you better bring chocolate chip cookies. :^)
Some are comfortable with names, others feel a need for their moniker only - I am good either way.

Bdp24 - have you ever heard 57's with a Music Reference RM10 ?

I don't know how you feel about this idea Chris, but the width of a W- or H-frame is around 16". The OB/Dipole sub can actually be used horizontally (laid on it's side), and a Quad speaker set on top of it, the sub thus becoming a 16" high stand for the speaker.
Bdp - Short answer is no. And you are reminding me of an experiment I did which was really illuminating for me. So I share it here.

Dm70 Quad 57 Combo

The DM70 is left unplugged making only the woofer active. It started out right under the 57 (looked kinda funky...no ?)and gradually moved forward until the bass wave was aligned with the 57's - to my ears. The problem is the crossover for the dm70 is 500 hz and intruded into the Quad's space. The woofer is designed to work with its own ESL panel. The ESL panel which btw was made for B&W by Janszen. .

1-06-15: Bdp24
Oh, I neglected to address your desire to fill in only the bottom of the Quad, without encroaching on the it's sound above that. A well-justified concern Chris, and the inability of almost all subs to do just that is exactly why most Quad lovers choose to just live without deep bass, the loss of too much of the Quad's sound being too high a price to pay to get it.

Well I think I have it figured out. I need some time with my wife out for some fun test runs to really test it out. Maybe this weekend.

Also I found out from Rhythmik that you need at least a pair (4 drivers and two amplifiers) to get the same output as one F12.
The OB sub is not good for near field placement. They need a lot of room around them to work properly.

Just sayin....

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp24 - The OB/Dipole sub is a completely different animal than any sealed or ported sub.
Bdp

Yes Indeed, I was surprised with Quad 57 in the subject line that he didn't hit on the OB sub in the emails and instead discussed the other subs. And I did not discuss DIY or finished. No problem. I wanted to hear him out and his responses to my emails were really fast.

Since you can't hear the Gr Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub before purchase, I highly recommend reading all about it on the GR AudioCircle Forum
Yes will do more reading on it. I'd like to learn more about it.

GR Audiocircle OB Sub

Once this November T Shirt and Flip Flop weather goes away for good.

Thanks for making me aware of this product. Also Considering DIY..

Bdp24 - As to locating subs nearfield to reduce possible distortion, consider this: The limiting factor in a hybrid loudspeaker/sub pairing will be the maximum output of your loudspeakers, not the sub. When your Quads have reached their maximum SPL, the subs will still be coasting!
Bdp - your point is noted in general; but each case /room is unique. So lets acknowledge something here because it plays a big role in my space/room. The importance of the proper mating of a speakers system and amp/s. In this case the Music Reference RM10 and Quad 57's are joined at the hip - by design. (Thank u Mr. Modjeski).
In my space; with the 57's positioning and the nearfield sub, I am not reaching the 57's maximum SPL (yet) in that fairly large room with my listening habits. I am also only looking to fill in the bottom - without encroaching on the 57's output. Zero. The Matrix 800's in room A are the bass reference. I can hear what if anything I am missing in Room B. Both from an actual note and pressure (visceral) sense.

Btw your references to my ET Speakers. These are listed in my Notables Section of my virtual system page. Meaning good memories. Unfortunately no longer own them. :^(
They fell victim to the " I Just can't find a place to hide them from my wife scenario "

Audiophile Memory - Chilly Winter Day.
There they were, the ET LFT8a's and Modded Acoustats Model 3 upstairs not bothering anyone in a living room we don't use much anymore. I think it all came about after my wife found me in that room listening to the Model 3's with the OTL's . The heat from the amps shut the house thermostat which was in the room down. Rest of the House got cold. She came in and found me looking like I was enjoying the sand in Puerto Vallarta with a drink in hand - just no umbrella in it. Long story short I was forced to cull. So one day I reluctantly lined up the ET Lft8a and Accoustat up on one side like a Police line. It was a no decision. The differences in that room - the Models 3's made music sound like it was in a studio. The ET's sounded more like in a hall. More ambient info. Both good. ET's could be replaced one day so they had to go. In comparison the Quad's 57's sound is live at the Microphone with voices.......
note:
I had the A version's not the B's of the ET's. Thought about getting Bruce to send me the tweeters to make them b's but changed my mind because of the setup. Going by memory - the A version tweeter panels are dipole, don't have the material in the speaker tweeter panel (if I remember right) blocking the back wave. Being a tall narrow speaker the A version allowed you to place them on the sides of the wall (midfield) in a long narrow room. One on each side. You could get imaging at both sides of a long room this way. It was so cool. Miss them.

Bdp - are u familair with the Vandersteen 2wq's subs. Any thoughts in regards to compatibility with the 57's ?

Anyone else used or heard them with 57's ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
--------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support


ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support

ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website

thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Bdp24

what an interesting assortment
Thanks. It was all acquired used. Three cheers for the frequent flyer audiophile. :^)
Actually that's not quite right. The OTL's were bought new. I really wanted them to work but they failed my test of time.
The reference ET 2.5 tonearm was also a new custom build from Bruce.

It's going to take me quite a while to read through all the responses and discussion of your systems Ct, but I'm sure gonna do it.
You know, Sometimes when I think about, I get little concerned about what I might have said here on the 'Gon. Its after all hardcoded in the thread. Even more so on the ET2 thread because I can't delete that thread like this one. But I never go back to look. I figure, I am just being upfront with what I hear and experience; and it is what it is. I do however "really" like the freedom I have to say what I feel (within reason obviously) as I am not part of the Audio Business in any way. This includes special relationship privileges with some manufacturers. I don't have to worry about offending any business partners. :^)

We obviously hear things similarly to some degree, both having old Quad and ET LFT-8 loudspeakers, and Music Reference power amps.
I just can't say enough, about how good the Quad 57's sound with the Music Reference RM10 amp, which Roger designed for his own 57's. Every music lover and audiophile should have this combo. RM10 and Quad 57's set up somewhere in their house. This combo keeps me grounded. The B&W matrix 800 series line is all about tuning. What gets fed in comes out. I have tuned their midrange, to sound like the midrange on the 57's. They are in very different but adjacent rooms. Both rooms can be heard by standing in the doorway of Room A.

The Quad 57' design is older than me but the actual speakers panels themselves are only a about 6 ? years old having been rebuilt by Wayne Picquet.

QUAD - Quality Amplifier for Domestic Use.

From an interview with the late Peter Walker at Quad Factory 1978

Peter Walker Interview

my comments on a couple points.

(On adding Woofers to Quads.)

PW: We try to keep out of it. Two or three people have made good attempts at
this, adding woofers. It's not that easy to do. Initially it's quite impressive, but to
try to give this a homogenous sound is difficult. Another thing people do is to use
two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is
really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating
anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom end and 3dB everywhere else. It
gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding
woofers has never been very good.

(So stacked quads give you more db in the bass but they still won't play the bottom octave. I am currently experimenting with sub/s as a fall/winter project. I feel I have found the answer but need to do more listening. What a chore that is . Can u imagine this being your everyday job...listening to music?)

(on Audio Philosophy)

PW: We don't produce a new product every six months or even 12 months, no.
Only two reasons for producing a new model: either you did it wrong the first time
or there's been a fundamental improvement in the science. Fundamental
improvements in the science come very infrequently.

(You know. I love my ARC gear; but I wonder what today's Audio Research corporate & marketing folks would think about his philosophy ? )

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Rega Apollo & Saturn Transport Fix. (initializing, reading and playing CD's)

This post is for owners of Rega Digital players (Apollo and Saturn). If your transport mechanism works, but your player is having trouble initializing and reading discs maybe this fix will work for you.

My Saturn (XX years?) which I still use in one of my systems went down on me over the summer. It intermittently stopped reading discs. When it did read them it would start having problems during play. You could hear the mechanism working hard as it cycled eventually stopping and showing an Error message on the display. It seemed I had the option of sending it to Rega Support Plurism in Montreal, or maybe try something DIY - do it yourself. Here is what I did.

First I took a Q-tip - dipped in Isopropyl 99.9% - waiting till it was not dripping and just moist. Then using a magnifying glass gave the laser lens one light swipe.
This resulted in lightning fast initial cd reads. But it still had problems playing the CD. You could hear the mechanism working till finally stopping and registering that Error display.

I then took some Lithium Grease Lube. Sprayed some on a piece of plastic. took a flat tooth pick and dabbed it into it. I then manually, carefully pushed the transport mechanism to see and access the full railing that it rides on. With the toothpick I applied dots of grease in an even path along the railing of the transport. I then put in a cd. there were 15 tracks on this one. Let it load. Then I cycled with the remote between track one and track 15. 15 and one....repeatedly. This forced the transport mechanism back and forth allowing it to lubricate itself with the applied grease.

At least 200 plays later it is still working better than it every did in the XX years I have owned it. (fingers crossed) I would post pics of how I greased the railing but have not had access to the virtual system here for a long time. What's up AudioGon ?

fwiw
People that have owned these players know how good they are from both from a DAC and Player/Transport perspective. Extremely musical, analog, vinyl like.
I had taken my Saturn to dealer showrooms over the years and plugged it into their systems with my CD's. The Saturn held its own quite well, as both an all around good CD player; but I discovered that its transport is the real gem comparing against others. For me personally, it took an expensive DAC - the DAC8 in my case to replace the Saturn's DAC. But its transport I still rank way up there.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Henry - glad you liked my Horn Woofer Speaker Selfie. Yes it was a Selfie. I came out bad so I cropped myself out of it !
You know...this is happening more and more with me in pictures these days.....cropping myself out. Can't figure it out :^(

Hi Dan,

Koaltar needs a pat on the head (if you can get to it), and a good scratch behind the ears

The hardest part was keeping a labrador retriever out of the water for 10 days. Do you have any idea how hard it is to keep a lab retriever out of water ?

Will need more input on just how great the improvements are on the push-pull amp

The truth for me is that amps are really kind of boring. The really good amps just disappear so you don't think about them. Unless they are loaded with tubes to stare at. But then you are afraid to leave the room for an extended period of time for fear of fire. think OTL.
Now Speakers and turntables - those are interesting.
When they (amps) disappear and provide reliable satisfying service year after year you got yourself a good amp.
But this RM9 is not just a regular push-pull amp.
This is a very unique amp to me. Owned it many years. It has been in the ball park with every amp I have ever owned.
It even competed with the former OTL's and; the only way BTW I got to hear the OTL's in trial at my house before buying them, was that the OTL manufacturer respected Roger; and needed to hear his amps with the RM9 in the same room. So he brought a trial pair over for me.
Can it compete with the big Krell - don't know yet. Been travelling and I haven't turned on the Krell yet since getting the RM9 back.
For now I will say the Matrix 800's are honest full range speakers 20hz - 20khz, and the RM9 is handling them nicely in my room.

The current version of the RM9 amp is called RM200 and to get one that Roger Modjeski himself has wound the transformers on costs an extra $1000. Makes me wonder where they are getting the regular transformers from, and if this part of the amp is being outsourced from the same place as maybe ARC or other companies ? Sign of the times.
Does anybody know the answer to this question ?

As information (a copy and paste from the Music Reference website)
Music Reference Price List from their website in US dollars.
Not affiliated....just a fan; I also own an RM10 that I use with my Quad 57's.

Amplifiers
EM7 All Triode Stereo 2.5 watt/channel SE power amp KIT $750
EM7 All Triode Stereo 2.5 watt/channel SE power amp $1250
EM7 All Triode Stereo 5 watt/channel SE power amp $1500
EM7 All Triode 10 Watt Push-Pull Monobloc w/ Balanced Input(each) $1250
45 or PX4 based Deluxe Stereo 4 watt/channel (Email)
245.1 45 based Stereo 4 watt/channel less output tubes (Email)
RM-10 MK II 25 watt/channel High Bias EL-84/6BQ5 w/ Self Adjusting Bias & Tube Current Indicators $2,450
RM-10 MK II 35 watt/channel Push-pull EL-84/6BQ5 $2,950
RM-200 MK II 100 watt/channel Push-pull KT-88 $5,400
RM-200 MK II-T As above with transformers wound by Roger $6,400
RM-300 MK II 300 watt Monobloc Push-pull (each) $9,000
RM-6 OTL (Output Transformerless) Direct Coupled, Servo 100 watt Monobloc (each) $4,500

So to replace this RM9 with a new RM200 is $6400. Can't imagine what two RM-300 300 wpc mono's at $9k each would sound like....
(if I was only living in California where Music Reference is)

A comment from the the technician that stuck with me; This is when he was testing the reborn RM9 out. "this amp just does not give up"
& "nice transformers"

So....

How do you know when you have a special audio piece ?

Answer

IMO.....when the repair/tech wants to buy it off you.

This also happened with my ARC SP11MK2 some years ago.

So been enjoying the renewed born again RM9, but up north much of the time now. Will put in the big Krell in later this summer.... .. no rush. I am after-all a full time music lover; and only part time audiophile.
I have grown out of the - play my favorite 10-20 music albums all over again whenever I introduced a change - phase. :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Well, If my spot the amp difference game was a TV show, it would have been cancelled the first week due to lack of responses :^(
I therefore declare Banquo the winner. You will need to come to Canada to collect the prize Banquo.
Still listening to this Born Again Music Reference RM9.
Lovely tunes coming out of it. Using the 4 ohm, low gain setting on the 93db matrix 800.

on another note:
Here is a pic of my new Horn Woofer Speaker

Also known as the Natural Woofer. It doesn't get any purer for this for sound does it ?
When he is hungry the sound from the speaker is at 1000 hz - more like a whine.
If something annoys him it gets into the 100 -200 hz range.

Sorry..... could not resist. Reminded me too much of a vintage Masters Voice turntable I own.
My wife likes this turntable as she is into antiques. She lets me display it upstairs if you can believe it.
Koaltar had the nasty performed on him this week. Hurts me as much as him.
Should be a real fun week here. 80 lb Lab and Elizabethan collar to keep him from licking the stitches for 10 days. :^(

Some recent listens
Sarah Brightman - Classics
Neil Young - Decade
Natalie Merchant - I have played this one so much I could be a backup singer for her at her next gig.
My girlfriend Sarah Mclachlan's latest - Shine on.
Blue Rodeo - 5 days in July
Supertramp - Famous Last Words...
Various Jazz and Classical
Dug out an old favorite from my very young days - Electric Light Orchestra - Turned to stone. Used to use The side containing Concert for a Rainy Day to pump myself up for Sports I played. This album therefore still pumps me up.

Something about myself.
In my room I am definitely not a streaming type of guy - I play whole Albums (CD's and LP's).
I like to get to know the artists and their music.
I don't jump from song to song. I get to know each song on the album.
If I am just working around the house and looking for tunes I usually just grab them off the Bell Expressvu Satellite - Theme stations in the other room.
Depending on the mood.

Happy Listening.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Banquo - very good.
You hit on some changes and made some good guesses.
You scored points and are in the lead. The fact that you are the only player so far...is irrelevant :^)

Some background
I just received back this amp early this week. It was given to a famous local tech here back in December, and I told him to take his time, check it out, rehab it and make it better. Better ? What did I mean by that ?

This amp Push Pull already trumped my previous OTL's monoblocks in the bass department and with less wpc. As you know bass is very important to me.
Remember this for thread readers - OTL versus Push Pull

It was fairly equal/very close in the midrange. But what the OTL's had over push pull was their immediacy and response, and a litter bigger sound. Like the sound was coming from a bigger pipe. The Push Pull sounded a little congested in comparison is what I wrote earlier. So I instructed him to, along with a complete rehab with new solder connections everywhere; to make the changes he felt were needed to make it sound more open, less congested.

Here are some more hints.

the same two pics have been updated

Banquo363 - And those 2 large gauge looking wires that appear to be going to the rca inputs? Noise reduction mod? No idea.

Looking at the top pic you can see I have added two red arrows pointing to two beige colored wires. Difficult to see as they are the same color as the board. If you blow the pic up and follow those wires you will see that these wires have disappeared in the bottom picture. They have in fact been replaced by the two large gauge wires in the bottom pic. FURTHER HINT - These two larger gauge wires are also Silver wire.

Also if you look at the bottom of the revised pic you see a red circle around an additional ground cable that has been added, This one attaches to the bottom cover bolt where the bottom cover metal shield attaches. So this will help with further noise reduction that you mention. Now the previous version top pic was already a modded version and it came with a very nice hard wired 3 prong power cord. In its current state the amp is very quiet and cannot be heard at idle even with your ears up to the drivers.

ct0517

Center
Owner
..
Can you spot the differences ....

Between the Top and Bottom pics ?

guesses and comments welcome from ......

Amplifier manufacturers, engineers, audiophiles, music lovers, politicians (?) .....
DIY tinker'ers that just can't keep their pinkies out of their gear.
Those addicted to the smell of solder smoke.
Those that like to play "Spot The Difference Games".

Extra points to those that can identify the reason behind the changes.
The previous version is on top. The newly modded overhauled version below.
Sound like fun?

The mystery amp and the story behind it to be revealed here soon with more listening time.
I'll say for now that this venerable tube amp and its magical transformers, sounds wonderful, and is doing one hell of a nice job driving the 93 db Matrix 800's and their double woofers.

Desert Island Album Candidate

Alison Krauss - A hundred Miles or More - A Collection.
.
.

ct0517

Center
Owner
I recently lost a bet to my wife based on the AXPONA show ad (which features a dancing girl), and an Audiogon thread.

for more info click here

My wife decided for winning the the bet it would probably be good for me to spend time away from Audiogon. I told her no problem, this is the only audio forum I am part of and only spend part of my morning coffee time here usually. She insisted. Today she lifted the ban. :^)

Hi Slaw.

Slaw - I recently purchased a three pack of Shunyata DF-SS risers to go under my interconnects leading from my preamp to my amp. I placed these on pieces of pavers I had left over from my sidewalk project. I felt the increase in height would help, along with additional isolation.

interesting comment Slaw about the Shunyata/pavers and isolation.

I have had a love/hate relationship with these things.

The bad - they are very good at tripping me. My speakers are 6-7 ft from the front wall in the room. I have to walk by my amp/speakers to get to the front wall. Behind the curtains there are shelves and drawers holding stuff - Audiophile junk. You name it...it is there. Tools, screws/bolts, cartridges, p - magazines, wires, manuals, tubes, oils...,? For some reason all this small stuff has a way of piling up into an organized mess in different areas of my house not just here. I call it my organized mess. My wife calls it something else. I am pretty sure my wife is too afraid to cross the amp and speaker wires threshold to find out what is in the stash here though. If you want to mess with me.....move something in one of my organized messes. :^(

Sorry to digress .

The good - when cable risers are used where two cables need to cross at 90 degrees they allow for a bridge to help keep them from touching.

The good - they are also good to hold the weight of some heavy power and speaker cables coming out of the component so it does not stress the cable. .

But... imo I feel if the cable is of good construction it should not matter if it is on the ground or elevated; especially if the music room is situated on a concrete floor.

So Slaw your comment regarding the use of the pavers is an interesting one. Curious if your room is on a suspended wood floor by chance.

Cool cable risers can also be bought direct from the Hydro company or Ebay.

Example

Another Example

ct0517

Center
Owner
Banquo - I don't have a cd player hooked up to my system (there are not enough hours in the day for both vinyl and cd)

Hi Banquo - The floor of my main room has become a landmine of LP's and CD's everywhere. I haven't been filing anything away since Nov Dec.
They are at easy reach I tell myself. Good thing its my space or my wife would have a fit.

The Holly Cole Girl Talk album is an example of a seriously well done album, I am not just talking about "Oh I Love the Jazz Music on it" type of well done although I do enjoy the music. I am talking about how well the music was captured at the source and engineered afterward. No loudness factor/compression. With the Holly Cole CD I can turn the gain dial (separate from the volume) on my preamp all the way just like with most vinyl. The result of this full gain setting on my preamp provides for the most "they are there in the room" with me. In contrast to this most of my Pop Rock CD's need to be kept at about the 10 -12 O'clock gain setting. This makes them listenable to enjoy, but not as much in your room foolery. Another example of really well done music for me are the Ultra Analogue Recordings of which CD's are available of the music.

Here are sample tracks


The album you linked is $125 US dollars. Can you believe that is now $157 Canadian. Throw in the shipping, taxes, customs if applicable and it turns into a forget-about-it scenario.

Two options.

CD

or

Download the HD tracks which are 24bit/88hz

Both will give you the in room experience with the musicians with this album.

Also - I got curious about something late fall last year. Why do some of my vinyl records of new albums Digitally Mastered; sound better in my room than their store bought CDs. So I called Roger Ginsley Studer Canada rep about it and he put me in touch one of his clients.

Lacquer Channel

They are Canada's longest running dedicated audio mastering studio

I spoke with Maegan Ritchat

What is it about females in this audio hobby/business that is just so sexy. No.....I didn't tell her that.
We had some very interesting discussion. One of the things she confirmed is that when cutting the vinyl; If possible and available the Hi Rez source file is the one that is used, unlike having to do the CD at (2 channels of LPCM audio, each signed 16-bit values sampled at 44100 Hz) Some Cd's I own have higher bit counts.

This is just one reason to explain why the vinyl can sound better than the CD.

But she also did say it would need to be confirmed on a studio to studio, album to album basis.

Also - your Music Reference RM9 amp as you are aware has a toggle for 3 gain settings low, medium, high, If for example you listen with vinyl at the medium gain setting, Digital may sound very good if you use the lower gain setting, due to digital's inherent loudness factor with most "average" digital recordings. Have you tried it with the streaming ? Thanks for the grooveshark reference.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner

uh...could you pass this note along to your wife:

There is a guy in S. Cal. who will pay handsomely for the Holly Cole Trio's Girl Talk on vinyl. Please do 'search' and contact me once found.

LOL

banquo - do you have a cd of the Holly Cole - Girl Talk Album ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Dan ...what can I say. Love u too man .....in an audiophile sort of way :^)

Banquo - u too...and I am also loving the battery operated brush. thx. Boy all this love.

It's a vinyl bargain hunter's paradise: I once found wagner's entire ring cycle (16 records) for $4.

I may need more love and some special protection from someone soon what with my
wife's new found interest in my records. Will definitely hide the fact that 3 weeks ago, I purchased an album by my
Audio Girlfriend
A 45 rpm double LP of Afterglow. Of significance to me - Its price shown, is about the same as the total for all the records mentioned in the previous post.

Oh the shame.
Here I am boasting about my musical finds for a nominal amount of money, then I spend the equivalent sum on two pieces of plastic a few weeks earlier. Well I do get to look at a 12 x 12 inch of Sarah with the record album, versus the 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 cd.

So I may need more help, someone to look over me a bit more; in case my wife finds out about this one.....and maybe a few others..
As it is, unfortunately I have learned I can't expect any such protection from Koaltar
Picture taken by company last night. He's become a real pushover with my wife.

Banquo363 Evidently many people only pretend to like opera because virtually every one I have bought has looked unplayed.
I didn't know you liked opera?!

Either did I ....
But I remember the exact moment of realization vividly. Couple of years ago and I am waiting for my wife in the parking lot and it is getting late. I am growing more impatient by the minute. By accident I put it on CBC radio and Opera was playing. Instead of growing more impatient, I relaxed.
Hmmm.......
But lets face it , I am not going to do my daily run on the treadmill to Opera, nor Classical for that matter or Jazz., Classic Rock all the way for me on treadmill. When I run outdoors I listen to the outdoors only. Hopefully this year with Koaltar beside me.

I'd put the Mahler and the Beethoven piano sonatas first on the clean cue.

Thanks...- their next :^)

Listened to the first album on the previous post list. The box set of Beethoven Overtures - Minnesota Orchestra
First production run 1980. Really impressed with the 3 records (condition) but really the performance of that Minnesota Orchestra.
They have quite the story when I googled it. Good lord - the box set is 35 years old ....

ct0517

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Music Finds
Been having good luck with music treasure finds this winter. The Scenario has been repeated multiple times.
I drop off my wife for shopping / appointments in town. I have about 70 minutes to do my thing. Other than stocking up on eating and drinking goodies, I beeline to the thrift shops for Music. The music collected on both CD and LP has been terrific. Incredible condition LPs.
The latest haul however was a little overwhelming for me. If you have any of these and really enjoy them please help me to decide which to pull and clean first because I am not familiar with these specific records. In this latest find many are classical; I love full bore classical orchestras with huge dynamic swings. But if I was a contestant on a game show and I had to identify Classical works .....I would probably lose my shirt. The groundhog says 6 more weeks of winter. I intend to insert two different lps into rotation every week. There are many lps in front of these waiting to be cleaned. So should any of the ones below be moved to the front of the line ?
All of these LP's I found and picked out this week - Tuesday.

Beethoven Overtures - Minnesota Orchestra - VOXBOX - Box Set
El Amor Brujo - Love the Magician - DMM Direct Metal Mastering - Audiophile Pressing
Andalucina Romero Sanjuan - RCA Spain
A Grand Opera Gala - Box Set - London Records USA
Teatro akka Scala - Giuseppe Verdi - AIDA - Box Set - Angel Records - Made in England
Too many Deutsche Grammophon to list out.
SERAPHIM V By VIVALDI - Angel Records France
The ROMEROS Play and Evening of Flamenco - Mercury
Paco de Lucia - Phillips Holland
Beethoven - 3 Sonates - Orazio Frugoni - Piano - MusicDisc - France
Orchestre Pro Arte De Munich, Georg Friedrich Händel, Johann Pachelbel, Kurt Redel STU0058 France
Paco De Lucia* ‎– Solo Quiero Caminar - Phillips - Holland
Joseph Haydn - Symphonies - Music Disc - France
Mahler Des Knaben Wunderhorn - London Symphony Orchestra - Angel Records England
Edvard Grieg: Holberg Suite, Op 40; Lyric Pieces, Op 43; Ballade, Op 24. - Turnabout VOX
ABBADO MOZART 40-41 LONDON DG NUMERIQUE 415841-1 Deutsche Grammophon
Piano Rags by Scott Joplin
Beethoven Symphony No. 9 "Choral": Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt: Vienna Philharmonic DECCA
JS BAch - Monitor High Fidelity Recordings Clavier Concerto No 1 in D Minor
JOSE MENESE - Theatre De L'olympia
John Williams - Plays Two Guitar Concertos - CBS Records
Willie Nelson - Without A Song - Mint

Had to pass on two Schubert lps - the vinyl looked questionable.

Too many cd's to list but two that stand out that I have been enjoying.
Mary Chapin Carpenter - born on the same day as me, how cool is that - but she is better looking than me.
TSO - Toronto Symphony Orchestra - Musically Speaking 2007-08 Season.

My wife after seeing the stacks of lps in the back seat when I picked her up after she was done this week, I know was thinking she should go into town by herself from now on. That is until she checked a few of the titles online at ebay and other sites. What she discovered was not good. They were purchased for a nominal amount of money. What they are selling for on auction sites has me worried for my record collection.

This cold winter has turned me into a bit of an Opera fool.
I have pulled all opera music I can from my collection. Some LP's I forgot I even owned. Even how I got them ?
I have Opera Mania on continual rotate.
I start humming (sometimes singing) to music in a language I do not understand and can not speak.
For some reason, my now 6 + month old 55 lb black lab pup Koaltar starts howling when Jose Carreras starts singing.
Is there any hope for us ? The good thing is my wife, I think, is intimidated by all of this to the point of being too nervous to ask me to do house chores.

Anxiously waiting for spring

ct0517

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Mapman
I can relate to what you say. I have 5 rooms each unique continuously enabled for good sound and 3 different headphone setups

Mapman - about 5 years ago, I needed to spend a lot of time during the week in downtown Toronto (work, parents), going home on weekends; I had two audio room locations going, 80 kilometers apart in TO and at Home. Two different power grids. Three rooms in total (1 and 2 respectively). For me multiple room syndrome :^) starts when one buys an extra pair of speakers (for whatever reason) ends up liking them too and they end up needing a home (room). Some just put two sets of gear in one room but this is not as elegant as giving them their own space. My thinking is that extra amps, sources etc.. can just be kept as contingencies. Well this is how I sell it to myself anyway. Also my line of work is business continuity planning; preparing for and recovering from the unthinkable.....so ....the more backups the better with me.

These days I have been corralled into the basement of our home out in the sticks where the power is really nice. I have created two adjacent rooms. Even though my wife considers basements sub par, its cool with me because, as Michael Douglas said in the War of the Roses, "I have more square footage".
(I think I used this reference a while back in this thread) Its so true.
Also having a short carpet + pad on top of solid concrete works really well for music.

A key thing for me is the living space above my main room is not used these days and creates a buffer for bass leakage. A path for bass leakage on full range music is very important for continued marriage bliss; as long as the path does not lead to your wife. As an audio friend that was forced to set up the air pump system for his ET2 tonearm in his garage recently told me, "I could hide a body in there and no one will know".

In my case Koaltar would sniff the body out first. Two speakers are hiding in this upstairs space today. They think they are hiding there anyway. My wife's take (her version) of the above could probably sell some books.

Cheers

ct0517

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Happy New Year Dan

Give Koaltar a big hug from me, I wish he could visit!

Your words put a big smile on my face. thank u.

A picture of his journey so far.

He is now 5 months and 46 lbs and is running with me on the good days outside. When we start running, he's full of energy and does laps around me at the same time as we are running. Bit of a showoff...... however after a few hundred yards he is right there at my side. He is slowly learning even a dog needs to pace himself.

I think my 20 year old fraternal twin son and daughter are sort of amused that he has replaced them as my screen saver.

ct0517

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My understanding is that the music was captured
here

for the Peter Gabriel tracks. imo - the Room (plus clean power) is the most important thing in this hobby. You can hear the Room (the facility) in the Peter Gabriel music. There is no way a rock concert captured in this kind venue which is common, is going to sound as good as the same music captured in a recording studio. His album Scratch My Back is an example of this. Amazing stuff. Anyway I listen to it still as I am a music lover. I enjoy the music, I grew up on it as a product of the 60's. It takes me back. A touch of the fountain of youth..maybe. The difference listening now; is my wife knows where she can find me, and some buddies some time, In the Panic Room aka Dad's Hole.

The best Rock LIVE performer I have seen/heard, for me, is Bruce Springsteen by far I have seen him 7 times ......all before the kids came along in '94. Then everything changed. I still needed the music to survive. So i brought it home and built my dedicated room. I am more into Classical now, the ladies singing, and other genres. Rock still makes up a good 15 - 20 % especially if the guys come over.

I listened to all 25 Linn tracks in one sitting. At times I was moving around my room. It was at a decent db level, when "Many Rivers To Cross" came on it scared the ^%*^ out of me. Very ghostly the way the song started; she was MORE than just in the room with me. There was presence. I am easily "spooked" by stuff like "ghosts". I stay away from occult, horror films as well. My wife to the contrary seems to thrive on this stuff. What was I thinking......
Happy New Year to everyone.

ct0517

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From the previous post link I am a Peter Gabriel fan, and Genesis. Really a fan of British Super Groups in general. I find the links great for the music but the track quality 6 - 6.5 out of 10. This was only with 3 listens.

On the other hand the Linn - 24 bits of Christmas was a real nice surprise

Unlike last year this is not Christmas music.
The quality is excellent as well. You need to create a userid and password but when you go to checkout the amount to pay is $0.00.
Available till Jan 6th only.

Here is a list of the downloads.

Almost Like Being In Love
24 Preludes, Op. 28: No. 15 in D flat Major 'Raindrop'
The Man Who Sold The World
Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 in F Major, BWV 1047 - III. Allegro
Many Rivers To Cross
Symphony No. 2 in C major, Op. 61 - III. Adagio espressivo
Secret Love
The Well-Tempered Clavier Book I: Prelude & Fugue No. 21 in B flat Major, BWV 866
Old Greenwich Time
Recorder Concerto in F Major: III. Allegro
Twitter and Bisted
Flute Concerto: II. Alla Marcia
Forty-two
Symphonie No. 2 in C minor: III. Scherzo: Massig schnell
We'll Never Have Manhattan
Sonnerie de Sainte Genevieve du Mont de Paris
Giant Steps
The End Of A Love Affair
Nicholas Drake
Requiem in D minor, K. 626: I. Requiem aeternam
Pause
L'Envie: Vocalise No. 28
Toccata and Fugue in A minor, after Bach BWV 565
Both Sides Now

ct0517

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Just came across this for Peter Gabriel Fans. Four free downloads for Christmas.

Peter Gabriel

Wishing everyone a safe and healthy holiday season and great start to the New Year.

Merry Christmas

ct0517

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La Vintage Granito Platine on Battery ?

I gave thought last year to putting my La Platine Granito turntable on battery. A curiosity more than anything else because it was possible due to the very low power requirements. But as a thread only design I did think about how much benefit this could bring in regards to noise floor. The speed when set is already as stable as my Studer when set up right. Time flew by and it was forgotten. With the boat now stored I recently put two marine batteries into the cold storage room, and was reminded again of this past project. I decided to look into this further. What I discovered was interesting, and I found in keeping with this audio business / hobby in general, very consistent and not surprising.

One of the emails.


Dear Sir,
Thank you for your kindness.

I don't understand, why do you want to put the motor on a battery?
My husband never proposed this fitting , and more he did not want to let the turntable be put on battery.
This opportunity was the fact of one of our dealer in GB .
Please accept my best regards.
Michelle VERDIER

It turns out in discussions with Mrs. Michelle Verdier, that Mr. JC Verdier (RIP) never wanted to put La Platine on battery. Oh, he would offer advice on how to do it to people that inquired; but he himself did not endorse it. I don't know how much funding went into research on it, but it never became an option for production for good reason knowing him from our personal exchanges. My Granito La Platine will remain as is. The curiosity has been quenched. This part feels good. Being put in your place by Mrs. Verdier. Well....I always felt that my best teachers in school were female.

There is no doubt in my mind at all, that his turntable will continue to live on as a timeless design with her in charge.

Back to listening to the Music.

Annie Lennox - Nostalgia Album - Wonderful Music

My favorite track so far - Georgia On My Mind

The cd is a studio album not live like the above youtube.

ct0517

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Appreciate your post Dan - If my wife had her way our house would be filled with as many dogs and cats as there are speakers in the house. I'm the much weaker spouse when it comes to dealing with death and loss of life of any kind. I was one that finally said ok after 2.5 years to get a dog again. Cheers Chris

ct0517

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Well its been really bugging me to tell you guys of my (our) newest addition that has made a huge impact on us.

Koaltar

Koaltar - is a K-9 who loves to chew on expired fire pit coals and is black as tar. hence his name.
He is a Black Labrador Retriever, just like our last dog Shadow, who passed just over 2 years ago at the age of 13.5.
Koaltar's parents - Dad from Labrador and Mom from PEI, Canada.
The breeder moved to Ontario 3 years with his dogs. This is how we found him.
My wife and I felt we were ready for another dog. He was bought with purpose. I am looking for a running companion. My wife seems to think I need a babysitter especially when up north. Right now we are babysitting him.

ct0517

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The Tannoy sub is the best match I've found yet for my HPD's.

It seems discussions about subs is almost a taboo subject, like a dirty little secret we won't discuss in public.

Dan - great that you are enjoying your new sub. Now imagine something for a moment. Imagine not one, not two but four subs. Two positioned low similar to other subs you've seen. The other two positioned high near the ceiling. The same quality parts as the other main speaker parts inside, and most importantly - same timber - a match to the other speaker boxes. The subs controlled by Bass Alignment Filters designed by the speaker manufacturer, but made by the same company that made the amp. All this with 93db efficiency. this is the matrix 800 speaker system. old school ? I think not.

btw - I agree with you that adding in a sub is almost a taboo subject on forum talk, but there is some validity to this.

IMO - most times folks are adding in one sub in a constrained room where the bass has a huge effect. A stereo system chain is with a mix of say XX components and all together make up the sound we hear. Adding in a sub results in the multiplier effect that comes into play; a greater chance of rocking the very fragile audiophile boat, and screwing things up. Audiophiles don't need any help in screwing up - everybody here has done it.
Also from an analog side its gets much more complicated - if someone is using multiple tonearms / cartridges, I have found this requires different sub settings when you are using a sub with its own amp / controls, separate from what drives the main speakers. This is why I always set up a room with digital and tape first, before bringing in the vinyl artillery. I try to match the bass output quality of the vinyl to some special tapes I have managed to acquire.

ct0517

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Halcro - If my wife is going visiting for a couple of days I plug the 57's in overnight.

If my wife is going visiting for a couple of days....I fill the bath with ice and call Susie to invite the gang over............
But hey....vive le difference....!?

:^)

something tells me Henry that you are going to enjoy the Brothel Post on the ET2 thread.

I, myself, am too far gone, there is no hope for me. This is what happens when one spends too much time with Winnie the Pooh. A clear case imo of just too much time with the bears. What it has taught me however is that every day, a steady diet of endorphins consisting of equal parts - listening to music, running and sex keep a person well balanced. Something to note - I don't listen to music when I run. I need to hear whats in front, beside and sneaking up behind me.

ct0517

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Hi Dan

even if they don't become obsessed with it.

you calling me obsessed Dan? Well I have been called worse.

Maybe I made it sound better than it really is with my kids. They do get a kick when I allow their friends down and I put on something that they can relate to - like tracks from the Eagles - When Hell freezes over for one example. These kids dig classic rock. I have learned not to let my daughter go in there with her boyfriend with the door closed and lights off. But they really just can't figure out why I need all this gear/stuff to make music.

Btw - I am really interested to find out how you make out with the cartridge whiskers on your thread.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

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Hi Mapman.
So how does it sound ?

Well your question is not a 2-3 sentence answer :^)
It depends on the room - A or B.
Let me try to explain in a few paragraphs.

Different phenomena happening in each of the rooms. Room A my main room since '94 is easier to pressurize and get serious air movement happening. Pressurizing the room to a certain level is much more conducive to "getting with the music" and allowing the endorphin's to work their magic for me. Just getting lost in the tunes and forgetting where you are. It is a more personal experience - Room A over Room B. The effect of the music in the room takes over and you just want to keep putting more music on. If we remember back to being a kid; for me Room A is kind of like being allowed to go on your favorite ride at the amusement park - whenever you want.

Room B is larger and therefore allows for more spatial information - its almost 20 feet wide and more so deep if I leave room A door open as it is adjacent to it. Its great for entertaining and social gatherings. Its a lot of fun to move different speakers around and see how they react to the rooms boundaries. Spatial information becomes more prevalent, takes center stage over pressurization - especially with the 57's !
It can be a lot of fun. Whenever guests are over I tend to gather with the guys downstairs in room B. The ones that have any interest in 2 channel music (the older ones !) always want to sit in the chair in room A for a few songs with the matrix 800, for a tunes before they leave. I'd like to try the matrix 800 in the larger room, temporarily, just to hear them in there, but as the room my wife relaxes is just above room space B - this is not a great idea ! I would also need her to help me move them.
fwiw -
The matrix 800 - the only way the matrix 800 speakers come available for sale is when owners are moving to a condo/retirement type residence or Divorce. Rumor has it former Krell boss D'Agostino's speaker/amp reference set up was the Matrix 800's, with my generation of Krell 600 and the Krell manufactured B&W designed bass alignment filters. When I tried to verify this info with Krell - I discovered his name had been stricken from the record books. Like he was never there :^(
An important note - The new style 800's (post John Bowers - R.I.P) are similar only in model designation to matrix 800. They are a totally different speaker system, different designer/leader, objective and sound. That's a whole other discussion.

What I find interesting, if I am away for a one week. Both rooms are shutdown and left unplugged. if I go into each room, turn the gear on and start listening to both rooms within 15 mins. They both sound like ka ka. Lifeless, cold sterile, like music is coming from thin little wires - but for different reasons. Room A the preamp and amp need to warm up. The sp11 needs to be on for minimum 4 hours for me; The Krell 600 which is left on auto standby normally - this keeps it at about 70 F / 20 c (from what I can tell based on feel). It needs at least one hour of warm up (meaning on). Room B assuming the Quad 57 are in place, the RM10 amp and AI preamp needs only 10 mins but the 57's need to re-energize especially if it is really dry like during the winter in order to get the HF and lowest bass producing. If my wife is going visiting for a couple of days I plug the 57's in overnight. I can't believe how good the Music Reference RM10 amp drives the 57's. Great with a Jazz trio at moderate levels but when pushed with fuller range music they get congested. This is not evident until you hear the matrix 800 or even the previous 801's do the same music. A sub helps big time as it helps reduce the db level the quads are required to play at. I also set up the sub differently than what I have read on this forum. Still their midrange is a reference point for me in setting up speakers. If I hear what is on the quad mid, with other speakers, same tone, I know the setup is good.

The best word I can think of to describe what I hear in Room A the main room, is effortless. If things are warmed up - all of the OTL magic that was there before, but with a bass presentation that is like sitting in the 4 or 5th row of a live club. In your face air movement on crescendos and music peaks that is very addictive and makes it difficult to leave. The Krell amp in this room is just barely cruising imo. The music midrange tone matches up with my midrange reference Quads in the other room. In fact have had same songs going and walking between the two rooms to demonstrate this to folks. However if I stand at the back side entrance to the main room A door the singers voice still comes from the center of the room. Further fooling you. The greatest sense of (like they are at the microphones) is on the good records. This happens when the pressing is good enough that it allows for me to use the on the fly loading with the SP11 MkII for MC cartridges at 47k.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

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She might as well have sent it to me!

But Dan, she did send the reply to you...... and every one else on this site.
Her reply contained the words "you're all" :^)

My daughter is the most familiar with this ......audiogon-e....... site and my virtual page more so than my wife and son. This means she is probably likely to gain the most when I disappear and this audio stuff needs to be dolled out !

I recall vividly some 14-15 years ago when I was in my "tube rolling phase" how she learned the excitement of ebay winning with me. Winning 4 NOS Amperex bugle boys or Telefunken tubes here and there. They would come in the mail and she would help me put them in the tube tester to see if they were really reading like new as the seller stated in the ad. She knows of the boxes stored in this cabinet containing some 60 plus tubes. Many are for my SP11 MKII preamp which just refuses to go hard on them and the tubes last forever (knock on wood). The SP8 was alot of fun to tube roll with. My Audible Illusions preamp in room 2 has also been great on tubes, contrary to what I read online. So I still have many tubes remaining.

My daughter is the one that made the drawing that is on the entry door to my room when she was just a little girl. I show this pic is in the top link of my virtual page for the Main Room. Now my son - he has expressed the most audio interest with the former black TNT turntable - thought it looked like a tarantula; he thinks the Dynavector tonearm looks cool, and that the matrix 800s are totally bad ass. My wife, well she just likes it best when the door is closed and the music can not be heard upstairs.

Cheers.

ct0517

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Dan - I sent a text to my daughter about her ghetto dock comment and this forum.
Her reply back.



:)
you're all over the top audio nuts.

Happy listening.

ct0517

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Hey Dan – you know me...Mr Fun ...heh heh ..being voluntarily retired agrees with me. I used to be the hard ass in the family laying down the law. That role seems to be evolving to my wife. :^0. Well let’s call it split duties right now.

You didn't state what the giant piece of wood is for, did I see something about a dock?

Yes “tis” a new Dock and it reminded me of a couple stories from this summer I’d like to share.
re: the new dock.

I built our first cottage dock in 1988 6 years before our fraternal twins were born. Over the years I discovered docks are like guys underwear. Guys tend to keep wearing/using both of them and don’t replace them as long as they are floating and holding things up? They sort of become a part of you? Is this not true?
Anyway this summer my daughter comes up with her b-o-y-f-r-i-e-n-d and says to me. “Dad.. that dock is like .....a Ghetto Dock”. OK I got it. So some more of “their” money spent on the new one. We were gone for a week and while gone I noticed a beaver had stuffed branches and leaves into the dock crevices on the shallow side. The beaver seems to really dig this sturdy structure. I also admit less BEER gets spilled on the dock deck.

Cottage Country Music

As is tradition up here and I imagine other places when you boat around the lake in the evening; you see a couple campfires going on from other cottagers. You decide where to shore up and join in on the fun. Stories, stars, loons, wolves, frogs some beverages and some music. Word is on our section of the lake that I am into this audio stuff, and was asked by a cottager to make a music usb stick for them so they can put it in their computer hooked up to a ........Bose Wave Radio.... that he plays from their deck, not too far from the fire pit. Enough music to last from 9pm to the wee hours. I told him no problem. I mean come on – we live for this stuff, right ? Imagine a job doing this,

Now the weird part to me was as we were heading home my wife says to me “whatever you do not put any Classical music on it”. I stood there thinking about what she said but did not reply for some reason. I am still not sure today if this is because she doesn’t think classical music “gels” with a campfire setting with friends; or if she doesn’t want to see me start waving my hands around as she has caught me on multiple occasions after a few beverages in my music room listening to Classical music. I like to pretend I am the conductor. Anyone else do this with their hands/arms listening to Classical ?

Led Zep - I normally listen around 70-80 db at home. This is not possible with Led Zeppelin. I need to pick times when I am alone to put on LZ else risk the consequences.

Here is a classic one for the campfire setting around here.

The Tragically Hip with the Bobcageon song

Bobcageon is a serene small town in Central Ontario

Happy Listening.

ct0517

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This piece of wood cost me as much as the recent Audio Research DAC8 I acquired. To me watching/hearing all that mass hit the water a few feet away was impressive and not something I see every day, so I thought it would be fun to share it here. The one hour plus it took to tow it to its destination at 2-3 mph was not very impressive. Sorry about the crappy video quality on my old phone. Something a little different.

This 10 x 20 foot piece of wood is likely to last longer than me. Not sure the same can be said about the DAC8 ? Maybe if I stayed off this forum. Right now that piece of wood and the ARC DAC8 are both floating my boat.

Enjoying what is left of summer and hoping for some Indian summer. Some music for gathering round a fire with that special someone? can you say Blue Rodeo

Cheers

ct0517

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Digital update
Between summer activities I managed to load up about 50 cds to the WD MyBook hard drive. Also downloaded the
Audiogon Presents The Wake Up Your Ears Sampler at 192kHz/24bit.

Having a blast learning and this IT guy is in sponge mode right now.

Back in Jan 2014 when I was doing research on which DACs to review and hear, one of the key documents that caught my interest was the ARC short two page white paper on Asynchronous USB 2.0 HS

As a computer guy it made a lot of sense to me. The ARC DAC8 is identical to the current ARC REF DAC except for a tube output stage.

Hello Chris,

The DAC8 uses the same digital chips that are used in the Reference DAC. The REF DAC has a vacuum tube audio output instead of a solid state design.

Please see attached file for more information.

Best Regards,

Kalvin Dahl

Customer Support Manager

I knew I didn't need more tubes in my system. Am very happy where things stand. So a big reason the used DAC8 became a very attractive option for me without having to sell the farm. I have a long way to go to optimize set up but will just be patient and use my ears.

The key part of the ARC USB white paper that stands out to me is that the ARC engineers/designers indicate that the DAC needs to be - the host, the master (Alpha); the Computer part, just the SLAVE. I wonder what percentage of other DAC's follow this approach ?

I read from some (not all) audiophiles on the forum here about their bias against USB, saying it was never meant for music. My take on it is that what is being passed by the computer is not a music signal but just 0's and 1's. They need to arrive safely.

Its the DAC's job once this "data" not music is received, to convert it to analog and send the now music signal on its way. Hence the DAC needs to be the Alpha carrying the load. For the digital audio veterans I hope I have it explained it correctly ? If not pls correct me. I would also welcome comments on the ARC white paper from any technical folks.

Having fun - happy Listening.
Vinyl Rules still. :^)

ct0517

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Did the big smoke yield rewards?

It did indeed. I went, I saw, I heard and more. What I heard was convincing enough that I managed to deplete our bank account and did not come home empty handed. I heard a number of DACs at a couple of dealers as well as all in one CD players with DACs internal - some costing much more than good used cars and smaller new cars. How do I tell you what I heard without sounding repetitive and boring. I may need to brush up on my consulting skills if this kind of behavior continues so here is something that I hope tells the tale.

This is what I heard.

What ? you guys were expecting to see some shiny gear ?
Looking at my slide, imo if you are a music lover and the music tone meets your approval either music presentation works. The agreeable music tone is what allows you to listen to hours and hours of music if allowed. Isn't this the objective here ? Well its one of my objectives. Now if you are also cursed with having being born with any part of this audiophile disease, then I think you will much prefer the bottom presentation - as long as the tone is still good. By tone - for myself I prefer organic sounding, musical, but still extended and full range, very smooth and airy like analog vinyl and tape.

So I added the Audio Research DAC8 to my room.
A fairly new (slightly used) piece bought from an ARC authorized dealer on consignment from an actual brick and mortar retail store. Too good a deal to pass up for me as the bulk of depreciation has already happened. I heard it in two different rooms at this dealer site. They needed to move it as the Esoteric CD Player I wanted to compare it with was in another room. The folks who did this were very nice. Vienna Acoustic speakers in one room and Sonus Faber in the other room.
fwiw - I really liked the VA speakers. Filled the space beautifully despite their small size.

The actual DAC8 I bought.
I was told the previous owner of this DAC was a frequent flyer - if you know what I mean.
Kind of like a day trader stock broker with audio gear.
All I can say - thank u Mister, whoever you are - for breaking this DAC in for me and keeping it in mint condition.
Or did you even break it in? From ARC it requires 600 hours for break in. Guess I will find out.
And I thought phono cartridge break in times were bad.

Some preliminary listening at home. The CD's have never sound so good, so for me it was a good move. It has brought me closer to the many Music Cd's I own. Maybe its the synergy with my ARC preamp. Also my ears tell me claims by ARC of it being optimized for use with USB (just as good as S/PDIF) also seem to be hold promise. I am no where near getting this optimized but I do sense some real potential here.
It doesn't get any easier than 5 steps to be up and running.
1) Load the ARC software drivers from cd. Connect the DAC with USB so it recognizes it. Set the sampling rate.
2) Insert music cd into your laptop cd tray.
3) When your music player pops up to play it - select RIP cd option instead.
In 5 minutes it is loaded onto your hard drive.
4) Hook up a decent USB cable - the same style as printers use (you are probably wireless now)
5) Double click on the album and your listening to your music.

Like i said not optimized just up and running but very impressed so far.

Busy waving around the red and white today. I mean the flag not wine.
So Happy Canada Day to everyone and to my American friends too for the upcoming July 4th.
Two important days to remember representing both our countries independence.
I find it interesting .....
The Americans earned their independence by going to war with the British.
We Canadians ...well we took a different route. We had a meeting with them...told them it's been really cool hanging together but we are now ready to go it alone. So they said ok.....

ct0517

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DAC update.
Back in town and will be heading to the big smoke (city) as we call it here to listen to at least two DACs this holiday weekend. This time the ARC DAC8 and an ESOTERIC, can't remember the model. I will be lugging my trusty Saturn with me with its favorite power cord under my arm. I will take the new Natalie Merchant CD with me. This new CD of hers has some really strong bass lines and is I believe a good weight test of the transport / DAC harmony. Will be a bigger test of the dealer showroom. Also will take Alison Krauss & Union Station - so long so wrong - cd. I came away unconvinced with the PS Audio PW DAC2 this spring. Just as well I guess with the Direct Stream now out.
Even though digital is a secondary source for me as an audiophile; as a music lover I want to now get as close to vinyl and tape as I can get with all the cds I have. I am very leery about using any of my kids inheritance for anything digital - except music ; even though they (kids) are doing their best to make me want to spend the money. Its going to take hearing something significant in the dealer room to make this purchase. The dealer showroom has so far been imo the bottleneck in showing differences. If these rooms that are semi permanent with lots of time for setup can't be sorted out, then what do you really expect from sounds coming from Room 2134 at some hotel ?
A home trial is not possible.
happy listening.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Latest music pickups including Classical, two Popular ladies and Led Zep
Used Classical Lps from two visits to my secret place.
Brahams Symphony No. 4 on VOX.
Mahler Symphony No. 4 G Minor - (Banquo as you are a fan of Mahler) I am hoping this one works out but it looks kind of rough.
Hoping its mostly surface crud and not groove deep.
A Mozart 7 lp box set in new condition that I got for next to nothing,
a German Telefunken produced JS Bach LP - " Kreuzstab-Kantate Ich habe genung" ??
Regardless the price was right. I like surprises.
Schubert Symphony No. 8 Unfinished - Telefunken, and No.9 Deutsche Grammophon.
yet another version of ......1812 Overture... this time on London Records.
The other lps picked up of various composers are on Decca, Phillips and London labels.

New Music from the ladies.
Sarah McLachlan Shine On, in Lp format;
Natalie Merchant's new album, self titled only available in Cd.
You know I am a biased music fan of both ladies so telling you how much I enjoy both these albums would be pointless ?
Anyway the Natalie Merchant album is excellent musically and sonically - so I don't miss an LP version not being available (until you hear it as they say in this hobby - you don't know)
The new Sarah Lp - I listened to it in digital first. It took 3 listens before it started getting through to me.
If I wasn't a huge fan I would maybe have been turned off of it initially.
She's turned a corner and appears looking for a new man in her life....
Sarah's vinyl is in an excellent package, much better than the previous Illusions LP with 11 songs spread over two discs.
Verve Music Group UMG recordings, Santa Monica CA.
How is it possible for vinyl to sound so good ?
You will need to get up off your arse FOUR TIMES to handle two records to get through this regular length album.
So now you know the real reason my turntable and preamp are right next to my listening chair within arms reach... well that plus standing bass waves from speakers.
There is well over one inch of runout on each disc.

Led Zep
The latest good news on the Lep Zep remasters got me curious so I started looking for the Led Zep Lps somewhere in my record wall. To be honest, in my younger days (17?) I found Led Zep just ok; was never a really huge fan. But they were really big in Canada so everyone here knows all their songs just from radio play alone.
I was more into the other British super groups, Beatles, PF, Genesis, Supertramp, to name a few.
From what I seem to remember, those really into Led Zep back then (when I was in high school) were just a little older than me - born like way back in the 50's. :^)))
I am a product of the 60's. 8^)
lol....

Well I found, pulled and have been listening to lps 2 to 5, minus 1 & 3 - where did they disappear to ? Find myself really digging these earlier albums much more now than ever before. That raunchy, groovy, bluesy, folk, rock sound is addictive. So much so that the music was pounding out on the matrix 800's. It brought a visit from the Warden with a warning. Then it dawned on me - I didn't even know this Warden lady when I was in high school and this music was first seen on the music charts.
I've read some wonder why this music is on the charts again ?

Timeless Music

Count me in as one of those that have re-discovered this band and their music.
I picked up Led Zep 1 remastered which also includes 2 lps of the France concert (3 lps in total), Will also pick up Led Zep III when its available in store in town. Excellent vinyl packaging, very quiet and flat vinyl - pressed in Germany - Atlantic.
Happy listening.

Led Zep 1

"I can't quit you babe
I guess I got to put you down for a while. "

:^)

ct0517

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Sam - the LA Kings are ahead of the New York Rangers 2 games to 0 in the Stanley Cup final.
Do you know how much money the people in the Greater Toronto Area (over 6 million people) each would cough up dollar wise just to see the Maple Leafs make it to the damn final ?

Wife is away for a few days so I decided to spark up the Quads + sub which are in Room Two.
this Room 2 is just below her favorite room. Not good. So I took advantage of the opportunity.
Its been a long time since listening to music in that room and it has the TV to watch the game.
An observation - with humidity hovering around 58 it didn't take long for the Quads to start producing 40 hz again.
You can start playing music after 1 - 2- 3 hours and they sound like transistor radios as the panels re-energize and come back to life. During the winter if no humidifier and 35-40 humidity level they can take two days to come to life when left unplugged.
Cheers

ct0517

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The TASCAM DA-3000 is an appealing product as it features BNC SDIF-3 inputs and outputs...one can pass native DSD signals if one prefers a different DSD DA converter than what is available on the DA-3000. It is DSD128.


Sam - thx for this info. Very interesting product.

http://tascam.com/product/da-3000/

"Tascam is introducing the DA-3000, a high-resolution master recorder that writes files at 192kHz/24-bit or Direct Stream Digital at 2.8MHz or 5.6MHz. The DA-3000 replaces their DV-RA1000HD, which recorded to hard drive or DVD media. The A/D converters are Burr Brown PCM4202 and the D/A is a pair of PCM1795s. A new transformer-based power supply has been created, with separate supplies for the analog and digital components."

I did some research on the weekend. The DA3000 allows you to connect your CD Player to it; and burn your cd's to DSD or WAV format on a flash card. The flash card content can then loaded onto your hard drive or used directly (flashcard - 32gig) with the DA3000 as DSD input into your system. This is important to me as I said earlier I have a fair number of cd's.

I am going to look further into this.

fwiw

The Tascam DA3000 for D/A uses two PCM1795's. The flagship $10,000 Rega Ishis CD Player/DAC uses two PCM1794.

I wonder what the difference is ?

Looks like Rega went away from the Wolfson D/A which my Saturn uses.

REGA SATURN
D/A - 2 x Wolfson WM8740 Sanyo SF-P101N

REGA ISIS
D/A - 2 x PCM1794 Sanyo SF

For anyone looking to get into turntables and finding the market selections (new or used) a little overwhelming; imagine trying to pick a new or used DAC.

Not sure how current the list is

ct0517

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DSD128 is very good...haven't listened to DSD256, yet.
Should you have the opportunity, audition the non-oversampling, i.e., NOS, DACs from Audio Note.

Hi Sam - really appreciate the info. :^) I will look into them.
I think its the hunt and research that sometimes can be the most fun part of this ?
I know there are a couple of threads of folks doing comparisons with these new DACs. Some have the funds to have secured a few of them in their own room, same time. You really do need to hear the components in your own room. Your comment about the Audio Note is also very interesting, as Lukasz of Lampizator also made a reference to Audio Note's Level 5 same as his Big 6; according to his opinion, sounding closest to Reel to Reel.

Hi Dan

I probably listen to more CD's than vinyl, mainly due to not being in the mood to go through the motions required for vinyl. In other words, I'm lazy.

01001001 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110011 01100001 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01000100 01100001 01101110 00101110 00100000

All of that says.

"I don't disagree with you Dan"

6 words in digital/computer format.

Imagine if we had to go through all those 010101 motions to type out 6 words to communicate with each other ? Well we are doing it here...hah !! excuse me but I find that funny. That keyboard is starting to look a little more complex now isn't it ?
Damn I just spilled some coffee on it....
Quick - turn it upside down

I remember the day I got into digital and bought the Denon DCD 1500 new. It was considered a reference player back then. if you can believe it I still have it - hoarder just like my wife - it sounds a little dark now. But I would probably take dark to bright if I had a choice. My first real job at 17 or 18? years of age involved punching out computer cards on this really big typewriter and reading them into this massive reader. All 0's and 1's. So "the computer" could understand what to calculate. Has anything really changed?
I also find it interesting with digital that the players reading the exact same cd with same 0's and 1's, have different tone and presentations? With records and turntable setups - no two are alike - the record source ... or the table/tonearm/cartridge setups.

Cheers

01000011 01101000 01110010 01101001 01110011

:^)

ct0517

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Dan - its two years almost to the day that my previous company shut down the Canadian consulting team that I was part of.
And it took 6 months away from work for me to realize what I had been putting up with and how it was affecting me.
I have one more step coming. I have been in the weeds with Analog the last 7-8 years. As I do have many cd's there is right now quite the delta between vinyl and digital for me on my main table. Now for the last 5 or 6 years I have been bringing my digital player to high end shops and comparing against leading DACs and transports. The differences have always been subtle - not enough to entice me to make a move. That says alot imo about my 7 year old digital player as it relates to me. Also the presentations in these showrooms has always sounded very digital even with my player inserted. I couldn't tolerate that for 15 minutes in my room. Just more reason imo you really need to hear gear in your own room.

The most recent visit two months ago was to a shop that featured PS Audio PW II and transport, Pass Labs Amp and Preamp and Gershwin speakers. Once more with my player inserted and then the PS Audio the differences were very subtle and the sound was very squeaky clean - not for me. The connection I get with vinyl and tape .....not there.
At home I can have all digital listening sessions and they are enjoyable because I am a music lover. But there is a big delta with my main vinyl table in room 1. There is an ease in the music (maybe the ease is with me) but anyway the delta is there and it is quite large.

I am hoping the latest DSD DAC's will make a difference. I will be using the summer to review and study up more on them. Have been in discussions with PS Audio and Lukasz at Lampizator as just a couple of manufacturer examples. Lukacz seems to thinks his Big 6 DAC comes closest to vinyl and tape. With the money I have raised from culling I will probably bringing in a DAC this fall to try to bring all that digital music I have closer to vinyl and tape.
Cheers

ct0517

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You state that on your Technics SP-10 set-up, that the spindle resonates at 5-7hz. Correct me if I'm misquoting you or if I'm totally wrong. How do you come up with this measurement?

Slaw - the numbers are for the resonance on the ET2 spindle on its own and come from Bruce from his testing. These numbers were also posted on the ET2 thread a ways back in a couple of areas. I dug up one of the posts where they are referenced.....here

fwiw and I think you share the opinion on this. I trust the numbers I get from Bruce from his testing. He is imo one of the most unbiased, reliable and consistent sources for all things vinyl. So I am a messenger in this case on this info and a user. I had numbers and a lot of other info listed under the ET 2.5 tag, as well as other areas on my page but I lost most of this data when there was a problem with my virtual page late last year. When I got back access to the page earlier this year, due to the number of views which is at well over 310,000 as of today, I decided to keep my system page public and have been adding to it with relevant info as I go; in the hope it is still interesting and helpful to others.

My two ET tonearm setups.

The ET tonearm that is on the SP10mkII that you referenced is in Room 2, is the ET 2.0 with a MM - its spindle resonates at 5-7 hz as mentioned. I use this setup to mostly test out used records I buy. I think I have at least 250 used records in rows waiting in that room 2. Lets be honest; as we get older time becomes shorter and shorter. I will probably never get to all these records. Once in a while I pull from here and if it sounds ok in Room 2 I bring it to room 1.

The ET tonearm on La Platine in room 1 is an ET 2.5, it has an MC cartridge. The ET 2.5 spindle as you know is wider in diameter and heavier than the ET 2.0. It makes sense therefore that it resonates at 2-3 hz. This is my main table setup. I keep about 200-250 records on the floor in that room 1 in specific rows - these are active play records. The other records are in the wall unit behind my listening chair - maybe another 800 - 1000 or so there not sure. I don't really think about it

fwiw - I also own 1000 or so cd's. There is a lot of music on cd I like that is just not available on vinyl, hard to get, or its cost too high for me. in my current state anyway.

Cheers

ct0517

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An update.
Current status of "voluntarily retired from work" continues.... much to the chagrin of my wife and kids.
I am just having too much fun.
My main room - circa 1994..... a little audio philosophy.
The room objective continues in trying to recreate the band and small venue visceral experiences of my youth. But also play all the music well that I want to hear; especially as I grow older and branch into other genre's more deeply. This room deals with being able to pressurize the room and become one with the performance. This is not about picking out that trumpet or flute and listening for its tone or decay. I am a music lover ..this is about being immersed in the entire music presentation;
to become lost .....for a while anyway...at least until the the wife comes a calling.
Its not about where they (musicians) are in my room but why they are there .... their overall message to me while I listen to them.
Does it motivate and stir emotions in me .......if it does ....their music gets repeated in my room.
Sometimes the message (lyrics) are more important than the sonics.....

The impact of the performance as we know can be addictive, therapeutic and this should lead to a "healthy" state.
Leading imo to greater Gestalt for each of us individually.

We have all heard the phrase.. Release the hounds. This is about .... Releasing the Endorphins.... thats what this hobby means to me. ok, ok .... enough of my personal audio philosophy.... you are allowed to do this on your own thread ... you Know ?

Matrix 800
What can I say...have had more than enough time with them now. What a stupid (sick) speaker this is. Updated pics posted.
Spring has arrived and I can't seem to keep myself out of my main room come afternoon, every day till whatever hour, everyday that I am home. Even as the daylight hours now grow longer with each day. This in itself can't be a healthy habit.

801 matrix versus matrix 800

801
The 801's are like a couple of wild horses...... even though I have nicknamed them Winnie the Pooh for myself.
If you have patience and learn from your mistakes the rewards with them I feel can be truly great. They could be anyone's last speaker. But you need to be the stubborn type for which this hobby is a selfish desire for yourself; not concerned about others perceptions, or status based on money. You also need a dedicated space and an accommodating spouse. Don't even consider the 801 if you don't have the these two things in place already.

The matrix 800 in continuing with the horse analogy ? ; are like that seasoned Equestrian horse that just won its 3rd Olympic Gold Medal. They can do no wrong it seems for me. Currently combined with the Krell 600 and Krell BAF I am the closest I have ever been to recreating the atmosphere of the venues in my younger days. is there a fountain of Youth ?

Some nostalgia
Here is a pic of Stereophile reviewer and musician Lewis Lipnick with his matrix 800.

and Lewis Lipnick in a more recent shot

His review, along with a couple of other matrix 800 owners input; helped coax me to make the jump to the matrix 800 after 19 years with the 801 s3 matrix.

I am not selling the 801 s3. To raise needed cash for music or other gear I am selling ....other stuff. My daughter seems the more likely candidate (based on personality type) to get the 801 s3 right now. Very different personalities my son and daughter even though they are separated at birth by only two minutes. She came out first and holds that over my son at every opportunity.

Happy Listening

ct0517

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I tried your test and I get no noise except a little buzzing from the tweeter--that's always been there, even when I had shielded cables.

Banquo, I wonder what the buzzing is ..both tweeters ?
if you could substitute another amp in, that would help eliminate the amp.

Once u go unshielded there is no return - imo
Its a little more work to get them working in a high RF area.
But the sound that much closer to what the tape sounds like.
Does it sound more alive to you ?

Are your wires separate strands? Mine are twisted together.

An analogy first.
Banquo looking at your audiophile dog on your audiogon page - is he trained well when walking ?
Meaning - when u walk him does the leash stay limp and relaxed or does he pull on it ?
The reason I ask - The ET2 tonearm design is one of a free bird. Its doesn't need the actual wires and/or the air tube to help with damping like other air bearing tonearms. The air tube is separate from the moving air bearing spindle. The wires are needed by the cartridge. So a necessity for the signal - need to be set up in a way so they stay limp and relaxed; like the leash when walking a well trained dog. This way the ET2 can trace "walk" the record groove smoothly. So the wires need to be set up for the least resistance with the ET 2.0 and 2.5 so they stay limp and don't move.

The wires themselves is a catch 22 situation - imo.
You want them braided as it helps to inhibit noise but; braiding them causes the wires to become more restrictive and even twist on you. This is how my old VPI JMW tonearm induced ANTISKATE by design. You would actually twist the wires one turn one way or the other depending on how much force you wanted to induce.

My first loom from Gene at Take Five Audio was braided. I learned the hard way and unbraided all of it. Now I braid just the section along the armtube; then the four strands, like hair - go their own way to the common point on the shelf next door where the preamp is.
They form a happy face loop in between platforms. (pics can be seen on my audiogon page)

I personally feel if Bruce Thigpen (ET2 tonearm designer/manufacturer) was not so busy building his unique speakers, and enjoying his personal plane...he would have figured out a way to go wireless by now.

ct0517

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Hi Banquo - in regards to cable risers. I have some that I made. I have also managed to trip myself up behind the amp /speakers with them. they can be dangerous.
I use them to be more neat and tidy and avoid power cord /amp input and speaker wires/cables touching each other.
if for some reason they need to cross I try to do it at 90 degress and I will use a cable riser to separate them.

With the tonearm looms, it is much more critical and I use unshielded wire. This is what I do with them.

Test for Radio Frequency (RF) interference first.
Using my cell phone I bring it near the area where the tonearm wires are in behind the preamp and see what the strength indicator says on the device - how strong is the RF in the area ?

For example:

on our main floor the Bell cellular signal is a full four bars. But in my music room the signal strength varies considerably dropping to two bars in the area of the room near the preamp.

To test the actual tonearm wires its almost the same as testing for structure feedback that we have discussed here before. Put system on mute. With the turntable not turning - lower your cartridge onto a still record. unmute and with record still not turning turn the volume up. i start moving the tonearm wires around behind the preamp. With the unshielded wire I will hit RF and hear noise through speakers; then move the wire a touch even a quarter inch more and it disappears. I attach that wire with a small piece of Blue tack so there is no noise. I repeat for the other three wires.

ct0517

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Hi Slaw
I really wasn't sure how to answer your question so I broke it into two parts.

"you have so many rooms/systems/ongoing threads"

Re: the rooms/systems - I guess I am like a bad virus. If I frequent a room enough a system usually ends up in there.
my wife accepts it. She knows I could be outside the house somewhere getting into no good.
I actually only have two active rooms now. They are adjacent to each other. Whats kind of neat is I can stand in the doorway between both; play the same music in both and hear the differences - left ear hears one room - right ear hears the other room. Lately though (last couple months) room 2 has been really quiet as I can't keep myself out of my main room. If this continues I will need to reassess things.

Do you have time for a job?

As far as work goes, right now - no - I have not gone back.
I am having too much fun. I have multiple hobbies and dealing with two 19 years olds taking up all my time.
I guess I am sort of retired for now at 52. I made decisions earlier on in life that allowed for this.
Nothing fancy and we have had to cut back on lifestyle.
This is easy to do when you realize family and time are most important. I just need to convince the others.

Luckily l have some gear inventory remaining to raise cash.
So.....same as my former employer who for financial reasons culled the entire Canadian division I worked for,
I started culling in 2013 and it continues in 2014.
Everything listed under notables on my page plus a few other items have been sold or are a candidate to be sold.

ct0517

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Krell's version of the 800 Bass Alignment Filter on its way to me from the US.
Damn that Canadian dollar. What happened? It was worth more than the US dollar not so long ago.
The Krell bass equalizer will be inserted into the chain and the Maughan Anodyne - Listen Up Box removed.
I am expecting there to be synergy with the Krell amp.
But the modded ARC preamp with its very unique variable gain output is the wildcard.
Also updated the system description and some pics.

ct0517

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The piece of thread that is powering my turntable is at least one year old now.
I find this incredible; but even more so the design of the Verdier which obviously puts very little strain on it.
If held between your hands the thread is easily broken with some force.
The silk thread was bought at Fabricland for $2.36. I have enough for many lifetimes at this rate.
All the fun with the amp and speakers and listening to music has delayed me from the project to convert the Verdier to battery.
Just not in the right frame of mind to attempt this. In the cold room I have 2 marine batteries being stored. they will be heading back in the boat - soon I hope.

ct0517

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Hi Dan - the power of music. just keeps on giving.
Glad you liked that album.
I'm in the mode of rediscovering my collection right now.
So much music just not enough time.
I am going to include Jesse Cook's Vertigo album in listening later today.
Cheers Chris

ct0517

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I am searching for KRELL's version of the 800 series bass alignment filter.

BAF

Anybody know of one pls let me know. I have a couple versions but would like to try the Krell version.

oh - one more thing - Congratulations Canada on the Gold!

ct0517

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The KRELL - 800 combo has made the other speakers really lonely.
So much so that I turned off the Quads a couple weeks ago.
There is at least 100 hours on the KRELL now.
Feeling guilty l decided to spark the 57's up. The panels need some humidity to be able to charge.
Its only 35 (very low) humidity in that room.
When I went to listen to them after 8 hours, they sounded like transistor radios. hah !
I quick call to Ken at Electrostatic Solutions confirmed the dry air makes charging take much longer.
So I left them plugged in - will try them again tomorrow - after a I watch Canada go for gold at Mens Hockey.

ct0517

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2-17-14: Islandmandan
Chris, "Gravity" is on order from CD Universe. Getting ready for some finger-snapping and foot-stomping!
Look forward to your impressions of the album Dan.
there was a system glitch, your posts and others from Feb 14 were on duplicate thread elsewhere. problem has been fixed....

as an update.
Sold Classe CA300 amp to raise funds.
The new owner bought the amp for 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla speakers.
Received feedback yesterday that they sound great with the amp.

ct0517

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audiogon test

ct0517

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Dear Dan
these public chat forums can be really funny places sometimes.
what people post can be misunderstood.
I don't want to be misunderstood here.
a few of the words that stand out to me in your last post are.

**I've got no where to go**
**boring**

In 35+ years at his hobby, "consciously" I have never ever came close to any of those words.
This hobby for me is as much about learning as it is enjoying the music. Freedom.

Another word you used that I feel is very very important.

**tinkering**

Some music lovers/audiophiles like to tinker and get involved. Others just want to hit the play button.
Remember a couple of years ago when we were emailing each other on how to build that alignment jig for your Dynavector tonearm? I am willing to bet that activity was very satisfying for you; not only because you got your tonearm up and running but you actually built the jig to make it work. A brilliant piece of engineering that jig is imo. This type of learning can't stop.

Sometimes we match two components up and magic happens for us. We can feel like there is no where else to go with it. My Quad 57/RM10 combination is one example of this for me. I have no intention of breaking them up. Can that gear in that room play all the music I like to my satisfaction?
NO
It can do maybe 20-25% of it well. But what it does well - it does really really well.
I just brought a new speaker into a room after 19 years with the existing ones. Other speakers also saw that room. It will take some time to sort out. This is part of the audio journey. Always learning. I'm looking forward to it.

Now I am a huge Jesse Cook fan.
Here is music that I find anything but boring .... guaranteed to perk you up ...and forget just plain toe tapping...
you will be up and dancing ....

Jesse Cook - from the Gravity album. Listen to the drums at 1:58

Click here

snap those fingers

One more

ok... no more coffee for me this morning......

HANW (have a nice weekend)

Cheers Chris

ct0517

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Hey Dan - hows it going. The heat coming from this KRELL amp could "maybe" keep a pizza warm. thats about it and thats ok with me.

I did give thought to recycling the OTL heat.
Each OTL monoblock had 16 Horizontal Sweep Output Tubes.
Unfortunately -when I built out that room in '94 the priority was isolation
Had to make sure the music would not reach the wife or wake the babies up.
I eliminated all vents in the room for sound travel when I closed and packed up the ceiling.
On the main floor I guess the amps could have been placed near the cold air return vents ?
that way the heat and sound could travel down to the furnace where with its blower,
it would help send the music to every room in the house... hah !

ct0517

Center
Owner
Access to the virtual system page has been off and on again since mid Dec '13.
The consultant in me likes to change the look of the page around. I get bored with it.
I had deleted most entries and was in the process of uploading when I lost access ....for a month.
hah hah.... I'm used to the condensed version now.
seems back and stable.
uploaded a few new pics including a pic of the matrix 800 crossovers.

An update.
The engine has been changed in room 1.
The OTL 195 amps brought me some really nice music. Surreal at times.
I can even say it was addictive.
The ultimate test however is time.
In the end they just did not fit in with my audio hobby lifestyle.
Think.......HEAT.....and lots of it.
If a longer session you start shedding clothes; ending up in your skivvies (or less) by the end.
this can be ok when you are 25. Wifey comes in and it could lead to interesting things...
but when you hit 50 ....sometimes there are different results.
I think what put it over the top....... was when I had them set up with the Acoustat on the main floor.

Scenario
This room is about about 12.5 feet by 30 feet.
Do you see the white thermostat housing on the right wall ?
Its an older pic as I have sold the ET speakers that can be seen. Do you see where this is heading?
btw- Its a great room for setting up Planars and ESL's in midfield. You can see the ET speakers in midfield. The Acoustats would be moved up a few feet for listening.
Anyway
With me listening to music in a room that is (apparently getting warmer - like the music) - unknown to me - the rest of the house is dropping in temp.... in what is probably the worst winter, since I have cared to think about the weather.
I think it got to about 65F when my wife suspecting something came in and said:
"Why is the house so cold ?" ...immediately followed by...
"Hey , why is it so warm in here !?"
The heat from the OTLs disengaged the thermostat. :^(
Oh well. Life moves on.... I can take a hint.

Another observation.
I trialed my backup Classe amp with the 800's for a stretch.
The 800 matrix are separated by only one number with the 801 matrix but are a totally different speaker in design, execution, presentation and power requirements.
800's are 93 db, a 4 ohm load and are recommended with an amp of 150-800 wpc.
801's are 87 db, rarely dip below 5 ohms and are recommended with 50 wpc - 600 wpc.

My Classe Amp - 300 wpc 8 ohms - 600 wpc at 4 ohms.
Seriously in the sweetspot with the 801?
Numbers say it should be fine with the 800 matrix too ....
And it did work ok with them but not well enough.
Easy to reach listening levels without working up a sweat and never getting more than luke warm.
Probably stayed in Class A for most of the time. No issues there.
But some aspects of the music was just unsatisfying with the 800's, or just not there.
I found the lower bass presentation "light", requiring speaker placement changes closer to boundaries.
Still it was light....
The extended highs although ok, were definitely for me - better in the past - with tube amps.
The midrange was really nice with the Classe; when compared directly to my midrange reference Quad 57's with RM10 amp in the adjacent room.
So the mids were good - but the low bass and extended highs left something to be desired.
1 out of 3.
I went on the hunt for a replacement. (In all honesty I think the nature of this hobby is - that you need to be on the hunt for something all the time ? This is a guy thing ? I think the key is to hunt for low priced - good music)

I searched the internet for other owners of matrix 800's, managing to make contact with a couple.
This allowed me to talk to them about their experiences and was invaluable to me.
Googling virtual system setups around the world showed some interesting setups.

Check this one out

Some owned tube amps with the 800 - Large Monoblocks like ARC and VTL, other....
Krell was very popular, along with Jeff Rowland, Mark Levinson and McIntosh.
Some were using SS on the woofers and tube on the mids and highs.
Some were using a full active crossover system.
Krell, Pass Labs and others sell active crossovers.

https://passlabs.com/products/preamplifiers/speciality/xvr-1

Each driver of the 800 speaker system including each of the woofers have their own crossover allowing for this.
I am active on the four woofers right now as designed from the factory.

I almost went for some KRELL FPB350 monoblocks.
I considered Classe M400 and M600 monoblocks.
thought about adding a second Classe like my own and bridging it to try out ? One never became available at a good price.
I ended up choosing a KRELL FPB600.
I inserted it into the system beginning of last week.

From the moment I heard the first bit of music especially with any dynamics it was like being hit by something.
Its one thing to again hear those missing "mothers milk" notes; they were there with the OTL's.
Its another thing however to actually feel the physical weight of them.
What I had been missing up to now with the 800's caught me by surprise.
I was not expecting it.
Never had I had, such air movement and deep tight bass (control) like this before on my limited time with the 800's.

The KRELL brought back that bottom octave with such an authority;
I was able to (well had to) place the speakers back out from the boundaries.
Tonal balance was restored. It was off with the Classe amp on some material.
The highs (on all music now - not just some) more linear and extended, smooth and shimmering again - reminiscent of tube amps.
Too early to tell if as satisfying to me. The all important midrange - very nice.

This is not about playing at ridiculous SPL levels.
I regularly have long listening sessions at a 75-80 db average.
It is about headroom and control. This FPB600 has it in spades.
Some perspective.
The FPB600 is more than twice the KRELL amp the reviewer in Stereophile demoed with his 800's.
I thought about just going with a Krell 250-300 wpc amp or monoblocks.
This is where actual owners experience with those smaller and larger amps convinced me otherwise.
So things are really good right now again system wise in my main room.
Back with Class A Solid State amplification.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Thanks for the reply Charles. thats too bad... would have liked to hear impressions. I could never afford them myself anyway.
Maybe I can try them in 5 years time when they are available used on audiogon and kids out of school.
Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
back to the equipment side :^)

Hi Charles1dad - if you see this; my earlier post of pretending to be in Vegas and hearing the Holly Cole Trio; reminded me of some pictures I saw earlier in January of CES 2014 The SHOW.

11-16-13: Charles1dad

I don't believe that the B&W 801 with its low ohm lmpedance would be a good idea with a SET amplifier.

Did you manage to get to CES 2014 The SHOW and if you did, did you hear the AudioNote
room. Powering 801's with their flagship SET Kagura Amp I believe - 50 watts - 4, 8, 16 ohm settings ?

Would appreciate your opinion on the sound in this room if you did. thanks.

A couple more pics.

http://my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2013a/IMG_8409ss.jpg

http://my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2013a/IMG_8410ss.jpg

Did anyone else who made it to CES 2104 The SHOW make it to the AudioNote room ?

Would appreciate your opinions as well. Interesting stuff.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Banquo - glad you found some of that music enjoyable.
The Holly Cole Trio lp was still available when I linked it. :^(
If I discovered one day that I owned a record that was worth $200-300-400 on the market.
I would probably be too scared to play it in the fear of it being dropped or something like that.
If I liked it a lot and it was the only copy I had.
I would probably buy two fresh RTR blank tapes @ $50 bucks each.
Play it once, record it at 15 IPS. Then store the record away !

That Natalie Merchant has an unforgettable voice--except that I forgot all about it. That is, until I heard the first few notes from your link. Then the memories...

One more from her

ct0517

Center
Owner
Of the artists you listed, please name your top 3 records.

Banquo - imo there is no such thing as a top three in this hobby whether discussing music or equipment.
Providing u with a 1,2,3 selection, is also just a snapshot for one music session as it does change every day.
this is because of the music we listen to. I believe
Some we listen to ... to pump us up from being down.
Some we listen to ... to calm us down.
then there is the stuff in between.
I believe our subconscious is very much at work here in choosing what we listen to every day.
Since this is unique to each of us a bit of insight is always required into the individual's current situation before you hear their selections 1,2,3.

Since you asked for my 1,2,3 - here is some insight into it.
Two 19 years olds, one male, one female, (separated 2 mins apart at birth) show up at front door 2 weeks before Christmas 2013.
The house is turned upside down.
Once the first week of January is complete.
One returns to school away from home per plan. What a good girl she is.
The other (the male); well his plans did not work out; so he remains and has currently no work or school plans.
He also has an insatiable appetite for food, drink, my vehicle and no gas money. $1.25 a litre for regular gas here.

After a month of the above whenever frustrated, instead of getting upset or angry,
I choose to adjourn to my room one when appropriate and listen to females crooning to me as they have this amazing effect of calming me down. Now I have been told by multiple parents with older children, that this is just a phase for him, and I just may have - 6 more years of this left !
So based on the above, hopefully it is understood now why I have been listening to all those females lately?

Now I apologize but I also can't keep this to just three like you asked .

So to start off and in keeping with the current cold weather theme in the north half of the US and here...

*****************************************************************************

Kate Bush - 50 Words for Snow - Alternative Rock, Accoustic
Made in EU - Abbey Road Studios.
Excellent packaging and sonic. The two discs keep the stylus playing on the outer grooves.

http://www.amazon.com/50-Words-For-Snow-LP/dp/B005TMGXZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWMYfcg1o8

I want to also recommend KATE BUSH - AERIAL but the price is bloody ridiculous.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kate-Bush-Aerial-VERY-RARE-Vinyl-LP-x2-EMI-094634396011-Art-Rock-2005-Limited-/201019024237?pt=UK_Records&hash=item2ecdaae36d

way way too rich for me - so I listen to the CD for this one. it is very good. Now if I got a master tape dub copy for the above price ...that is different. as this album is an absolute masterpiece to me.

Check this price out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000BEPLU4/ref=tmm_vnl_new_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=new

crazy

******************************************************************

**** Holly Cole Trio - Girl Talk ***** Jazz
recorded live at Stephen Leacock theatre (near me), in two track using a a single Calrec Ambisonic Microphone.

Again just one more time in keeping with the cold weather theme; and for smucks like me stuck in this nasty winter
this music will make you feel like you are on a trip to Vegas in February;
In a club all alone with your spouse, and the Holley Cole Trio is performing just for the both of you.
And - If your spouse doesn't want to listen with you; you can maybe role play with her ?
Ask here nicely to pretend she is a Vegas waitress and to bring you something on the rocks while you listen.
Maybe by the end of the album she will give you her phone number...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLY-COLE-TRIO-Girl-Talk-RARE-1990-CANADIAN-Alert-LP-NEAR-MINT-VINYL-Canada-/321303240267

Here is the whole sampler album for preview.
Absolutely amazing from a sonically engineered perspective - like they are there in the room with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu_HSLb6r8c

Can u picture the Vegas Lounge Bar listening to it ?

*****************************************************************
Now some heavier, weightier music from two women that both love their bass. Well Kate Bush does too.
Fully fleshed out folk, softer rock type ballads.

Natalie Merchant Tigerlily, Bearsville Studios, NY

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-6340-natalie-merchant-tigerlily-180g-2lp-45rpm.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhafXvtn0rU&list=RD4Yne1wHgITc

Motherland - Allaire Studios, Sunset Sound,Clinton Studios;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natalie-Merchant-Motherland-Vinyl-Record-Import-2013-New-/221290224693

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4UVxc4Ppv0

The OPHELIA album is also excellent

Talking Dwarf Studios, Little Valley, New York & AIR Studios, London, England

but I can't find an LP version for that one.
So digital it is and it is very good.


*****************************************************************************

Sarah Mclachlan

Sarah is my make believe GF, so I am really biased here. All LP's you can find of her's especially the older ones - go for it. The earlier albums if you can find any have skyrocketed in price so I am stuck with some CD's for those; which is not too bad since sound quality is good.

Surfacing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sarah-McLachlan-Surfacing-200-Gram-33rpm-Sealed-Clarity-Vinyl-LP-/331073856018

Album Sampler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeLQqezHkA0

Fumblin Towards Ecstasy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SARAH-McLACHLAN-fumbling-NEW-SEALED-G-F-200GM-VINYL-2LP-SUPER-PRESSING-/111241086150

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ALBTKoXRg38BCwdbDs9lnOLO0EKRvCUM9A

http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=373339

Most recent Laws of Illusion LP is ok.

*****************************************************************
Alison Krauss - A Hundred Miles or More (Bluegrass/country)

http://www.amazon.ca/Hundred-Miles-More-Collection/dp/B000ND91SG

yes its Digital and Alison Krauss' voice on its own is enough for anybody to go get a digital player.
Just listen to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwaZXUlFsyo

For me all of the above music calms me and is a snapshot for just one session.
The next session will be different and there are many more women artists I like.
So much music - so little time.
Hope some of these selections bring some joy to you or others reading.

Cheers

..... I think this post takes the record for number of links.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Banquo

When I bought my house 3 years ago, I hadn't caught the audio bug yet, so did not take it into account.

We get over bugs? Me thinks this is something more serious.
I am 51 now and have been consciously aware of this condition since I was ...well at least 14 since this is when I started working part time and remember making audio purchases - music with my money at Sam the Record Man in Toronto.

But your point is very important, imo - you know your an audiophile/music lover when you are shopping for houses with your spouse and "the space", its dimensions and how well it is physically isolated from the rest of the house, becomes as important to you, as her walk in closet and nice kitchen.

What a stupidly cold and snowy winter.
Music wise my girlfriends have been helping to keep me warm.
Sarah McLachlan, Natalie Merchant, Kate Bush, Patricia Barber, Chantal Kreviazuk, Amanda Wilkinson
along with some Classical and Jazz lately.
Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Banquo363 - and it tends to get louder as the evening wears on.

Banquo - Sounds like you might headed toward a dedicated room ?
You would probably love to have a full empty basement to do as you please?
But the reason for that full basement - you would not relish.
Happy New Year to you too.
Did you get a chance to hear that great amp of yours with the 57's yet ?

ct0517

Center
Owner
Dover - hah hah
your post reminded me of something I remember from ages ago in grade 8 or around there. over hearing two friends in school talking to one another.

Friend One: Hey - guess what man ... Led Zeppelin is coming to Maple Leaf Gardens on Oct 16.

Friend Two: Is he ?

Dover - I am surprised you didn't bring up the fact that the link was a promotional lip sync session?
anyway she's totally new to me.
fwiw - whatever musicians/singers want to call themselves.
the way I see it LORDE can't do it without the keyboard and drummer guy. well actually she could - unplugged I guess but she doesnt on the cd. she is a vocalist only.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Fresh music from a younger New Zealand group.
for those downunder I assume you are aware of this young lady sensation? She is only 17?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7T64Qo3bdU

You would never know from the youtube source (or on my Quad 57's) that this song was engineered with really serious bass.
Lots of bass is common with the younger generation (my teenagers). Its also helping me to dial in the bass with the 800's.
A came across this tune as it played on my little exercise radio while I was running;
Later I was in the mall on boxing day and inquired about it.
I enjoy listening to young people singing especially when running, as their music gives me energy.
The music lyrics are equally important as it lets me know what my own teenagers are listening to.

Endorphins
are a natural hormone in your body that are released when you do certain activities.
Listening to Music and Running activities both release endorphins.
Endorphins naturally combat stress
I am a big believer in this and its effects.
I believe all my gear is just an excuse for me to have different ways of listening to my music in different presentations to produce more endorphins. :^)
With running I have four different pairs of running shoes that I rotate.
This is important to help prevent injury.

As far as this group Lorde.
I listen to and enjoy all forms of music.
This is interesting music but I usually need 10-15 listens before I am tempted to go the next level (spend the cash) and get the vinyl. Have had three listens on cd so far.

So much music - so little time.
On the best inside music days (like the current cold winter ones) I can listen to maybe 10-12 albums per day.
Stay healthy and protect your ears so you can keep listening.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Sam
Being from LA around all the artists there, you are in an unique environment with access to software.
I'm envious. Interesting info. thanks.

I wanted to share something from last week that I found interesting.
A previous work friend has a young son that is attending a course at
Metalworks Studios

and trying to set up his first small studio in his basement.

As I am the only one he knows of into music he asked me if I knew anything about some microphones (condensor vs dynamic) his son wanted (thinking Christmas gift). I quickly passed his request to Roger :^)

imo - The key to a successful consulting career is timely access to SME's (Subject Matter Experts)

I found Roger's response very interesting.
Music lovers/audiophiles never seem to discuss this end of the music - imo the microphone is like that stylus in the groove. Where it all starts. I thought you guys would find this interesting (as I did) - so I wanted to share it here.

"Hi Chris:
Basically condenser mics should be considered mainly as studio recording mics. I don't know the 214; the more common AKG that we see is the 414 and much more expensive.
However if this mic is to be used with vocals you should use a windsock (we call them spit-pads) in front of the capsule otherwise moisture from the mouth will eventually rust out the capsule. And replacement capsules are not cheap. (I represent Neumann-Sennheiser -amongst other studio gear, and I also deal with all studio condensers for repairs).

For on stage on-the-road use dynamics. They are much cheaper, will stand far more abuse than condensers and if stolen or lost they are not too expensive to replace. Also the PA quality is no where close to a proper recording set up so the difference in response will not be noticed.

If recording drums please use dynamics rather than large condensers because they tend to get in the way and unless you have an experienced drummer, these mics often get hit. However if condensers must be used on a kit then a pencil type like KM84 or C451 series are ideal. For kit drum only large diaphragm dynamics because the volume of air will destroy a condenser. The diaphragm is tightly stretched and I have seen expensive mics like Sanken's with the diaphragm split open !"

ct0517

Center
Owner
Some music for weekend listening.

http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/wpsite/sample-tracks/

These samples are from CDs made from a DSD recording of the actual analogue
master tapes. They are not currently downloadable.
I have been told if they are made downloadable one day, it would be from the actual DSD recording as it is closest to the analog master.

Note:
I am not affiliated with this site other than being a customer of tapes. Hope u guys (gals) enjoy this music as I do. Just sharing.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Sam ...... only 8 hours away............:^)

Some recent emails with my Studer tech were fascinating to me.
I wanted to share some of it with you guys here as it relates to imaging and what we hear when we listen to music.

******************************************

"Finally we debated over using butterfly heads (0.75mm gap) versus the more standard 2mm stereo heads. We opted for butterfly as there is more recorded area used. This does have the slight drawback of more crosstalk between channels (they are closer together) but for classical recording this works out extremely well. There is far more `blending' between channels producing a wider and fatter result. Of course butterfly used for say a rock recording would not be advisable as instruments panned hard left and hard right would tend to be dragged more towards the centre which would result in some clutter and lack of definition."

Roger Ginsely - Studer Canada Rep and Tech

************************************************

The above is part of an email response to me in which I questioned Roger on why I was hearing what I was hearing on a particular tape. He is responsible for the Studer machines in the studio where these tapes are made. These are current tapes that are produced today.

Here is a picture of the Studer Butterfly versus Stereo heads that he makes reference to.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1385333142.jpg

I think the above puts things into a higher perspective that is not discussed much, and is only one example of how important the source material is and what the sound engineers do with it. Analog or digital. We are always hearing from audiophiles on forums about imaging, soundstage, depth, etc...

fwiw - I am aware of these imaging artifacts in reproduced music, but I don't place too much importance on them. I try to place the speakers where the tonal balance of the music is best on full range source material. I guess this makes me more of a music lover rather than an audiophile.
Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Sam - born and raised in Toronto, but since '94 am located 45 mins (by car)outside of the metro area.

Where the power is cleaner, abundant and steady...
this is good for those tubes as we approach the festive season....

jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way .......

that sound of jingle are my coins going to Ontario Hydro.

I made that up, but here is a direct quote I thought u would like.

"In fact some Studer motors have more torque that a V-8 General Motors car engine -its a fact"

Roger Ginsely - Studer Canada Rep and Tech

Cheer Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Yes Charles, the PP amp works well. Also OTL's whose design makes them impervious to speaker impedance changes work very well also. Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
Charles1dad - I don't believe that the B&W 801 with its low ohm lmpedance would be a good idea with a SET amplifier.

thanks for the post Charles1dad.

I am familiar with the 801 matrix.

the speaker in question is the matrix 800.
(see my previous post for a sample impedance graph)

I have no experience with SET as I stated, and honestly, I have my doubts but it never hurts to ask on a forum
and I am always looking to learn.

I also found it interesting that this fellow got good results with a 38 watt integrated tube amp.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1380734611&&&/Windfall-B-W-Matrix-800

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Thanks Dan.
the impedance graph from the stereophile reviewers room shows 6 ohms and down from about 70 - 500 hz.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1384633869.jpg

My understanding is the reviewers room was on the small side too.
Was curious. So if anyone would like to chime in pls do. I'd like to learn.
Have not experienced SET's
Will reach out to McAlister - maker of the Otl's as well.
fwiw - my Classe, RM9 and OTL's have no issues at all driving them.

But hey - if I can drive these with four tubes - u have my attention :^)

side note observation.
The Acoustat Spectra 33 ESL's required in between 11-12 o'clock on my Audible Illusions preamp dials in the second room to reach high spl levels when they were auditioned by the person that bought them. This was with the Classe. Using the spl meter and same everything else the 801's are able to reach these same levels at between 8 and 9 o'clock on the preamp dials.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Dan

Thanks. it was very un-nerving bringing 6 cartons in like that with no control.
Speakers are a lot of fun but also very educational for me.
They are a picture into how music and audiophilia has evolved.

The mids and highs on the Quad 57's and DM70 just love a live room with no damping.
The 57's were very common, affordable and placed in smaller rooms.
The DM70's were very expensive (for their time) and usually bought by those with big houses and rooms.
Put a DM70 in a small room and the bass will overtake everything. But they really do clean up nicely when raised a foot.
Likewise put both the 57 and DM70 in my damped and controlled room and they both sound very muddy and the next thing you know -you will be adding external tweeters to both.
imo - they are from an era when it was all about the music only. what is an audiophile ? what are room treatments ?
The 801's come from a different era; were the mainstay in studios and used by professionals. Then B&W realized money could be made and released them onto consumers/audiophiles. They are relationship destroyers and require a controlled environment just like in a studio.

Of interest - the 801's are in my bigger - livelier room right now. Although their bass has a little more room to breathe now - their revealing tweeters can be un-pleasant at times. If they were to stay there work would be needed in that room. But this imo would go hurt the Quad 57/DM70 presentation. So what do you do ? multiple rooms !

No matter what gear, speakers, wire, you bring in - we (including ourselves) our slaves to our rooms.

I really am looking at the tip of the iceberg right now with these 800's. I plan on just listening to my music and dialing them in over the winter. Pick up one or two new tapes, some new vinyl ...and watch a few soap operas with my wife.

Dan - a question for you - with your recent SET experiences how do you think the 800's would do with some larger SET amps ?
They are 93 db and do dip to 3 ohms. Not looking to buy but could always borrow some to try .........down the road.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
seriously contemplated acquiring some 800's -- they would complement the Bevs and DALI :-)

The three musketeers ?

Sam - I made a tape of my daughter playing the piano and singing before she went to university on the Studer.
I used to do many recordings of people singing when I was 12 or 13 with this big Hitachi am/fm cassette player that came with a wire microphone that you stored in a back compartment. Consider it my first stereo. I still have it (lol) - it was mono.
This would have been around 1975 :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
some initial 800 impressions

but a couple of questions I got from friends first. I thought they were important to discuss.

1) Did you consider any other brands; what were you looking for ?

2) Why vintage - are you not worried about condition of the drivers and parts, sonics ?

in a way what lead to this purchase is just as important to me because I am a hobbyist and I need to "BUY" first.
I have made a lot of buying mistakes in the past. My criteria the last 7 years is very generic especially for remote purchases and it can be tailored.
------------------------------------------------------------

1) "Did you consider any other brands; what were you looking for ?

I considered other brands from the US, Canada, and Europe.
Once I went through my list (below) the others started dropping off.
fwiw - I have no interest at this point in time of assembling my own speakers as some friends have done.
I feel there are already too many variables to deal with in this hobby on its own, the most important being the room.
I will never have access to the tools and knowledge of the professional speaker makers that have been around a long time.
My passion as a hobbyist is in placing their speakers in my rooms and enjoying them.

some of my speaker must haves were.

a)Needed to be true full range - 20hz -20khz. I play music that has material below 40hz. fwiw - I am surprised how many of todays new speakers listed under the full range category; when you look at their specs - are not able to reproduce the bottom octave well.
So some fell off the list after this one.

b)When I run them I run them for long periods of time 8 -12 hours and can't tolerate breakdowns as this is my special time. So I need to have a speaker that has a good reputation and has been a proven consistent speaker over a long period of time.

c)Parts availability from the manufacturer for non-current archived products is a big plus.

d)Serviceability that can be done by a local speaker specialist - especially if manufacturer is no longer in business. (I am not shipping full range speakers for service)

e)Guarantee of cabinet, frame construction not peeling, falling apart or glue cracking after xx years. test of time proves this.

f)They need to have been designed so that they can work in a large room, a medium sized room and a long but narrow room. The other brands that made it this far - fell off my list because of having to meet all three of these requirements.
The 800's were designed, and tested to work in a really large room and a long narrow room. The setup for both is clearly illustrated in the owners manual.

g)Good resale value (turnaround) if for some reason it didn't work out and I needed to sell them on the private market.

h) Last but not least - Its Paypal or no deal (or similar method for payment) one that establishes identify of the seller and buyer and protects both if issues arise.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

2) "Why vintage are you not worried about condition of the drivers and parts, sonic quality"

See b, c, d, e, above also

My experience with the quality and durability of the 800 series matrix line of B&W played a big part.
The drivers on my 801's matrix S3 still look like the day I brought them home. This includes the tension in the spiders and smooth travel up and down the voice coil. The 800's that I brought in were a remote purchase - after a few days of listening to ensure they survived the journey - I pulled the woofers on them.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1384019503.jpg

In a couple of the pics you will see the 800 cabinet and the start of the Matrix Bracing hence the name. The driver parts looked real good to me but being a vintage speaker I brought the woofers to a specialist for inspection. He has repaired thousands of drivers including B&W.
Some of his comments.

"These drivers are in really good shape. including spiders and voice coils. The rubber surrounds and robex cones look great"

"they just don't make them like this anymore. If ever you really wanted to rebuild/modify these - everything is easy to get at and accessible. Many woofers these days are disposable - you just replace the whole thing"

He also told me if I wanted to rebuild the bass drivers - due to the ease of access to all parts - and the fact all parts can be matched up with same compliant spiders and same voice coils the cost would be $150 each. That includes labor!

In contrast for example - my Quad 57's and the DM70's - are the total opposite of this.
I listened to 4 different 57's before I bought my pair. The others were not 100% functional and original condition models.
For this reason I would only buy these type of speakers as recently restored or rebuilt models; or an original pair real cheap to send for restore if I was interested in them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

initial 800 impressions

I have a confession to make. My wife is the one that helped me to raise them into place. Well I did it and she kind of cradled them. There are moments like this when you know, if you are into this hobby that you are with the right person. I can't let her know this as after 25 years of marriage she would gain too much leverage on me. I hope she never sees this.

however

The look on her face once we raised them up and they were standing there - I wish I had taken a picture of her face. If I could paint a picture - utter disbelief - I could also read her mind - and it was saying - you have totally lost your mind; and I also sensed a look of a little fear on her face of the impending sounds to radiate throughout the house .......even though I repeatedly assured her again and again of their special design and intent. She wasn't having any of this talk at this point so....

I thanked her with an uncontrolled giddiness that only small children normally possess, and I promised to watch some chick flicks and soap operas with her. The weather is getting cold anyway.

Although the jury is still out on whether I have lost it; her fears of massive sounds coming from these speakers to shake the beloved foundation of our household proved unfounded. More on this in bit. I'd like to note that 6 females have seen these speakers now. They all have nodded approval of their design - with the grills on. This has never happened before with any other speaker.

From the front they are actually quite nice and really don't take up a lot of "in your face" visual space. The midrange cabinet is only 8 inches wide and the woofers one - near the ceiling the other close to the floor are not in your direct line of sight. So kudos to the designers on this - however and this is a big however.

When viewed from the side where their points are they look like friggin zombie monsters on steroids. There is no way of ignoring the massive and deep cabinets housing the woofers. Very similar to the 801's in this regard.

Sonic impressions -

Without sound - the 800's are big enough and displace enough air in the room to affect the general acoustics of my room ! The clap test confirms this.

The utter disbelief my wife had of them raising hell in our house, became a non-issue for her when she heard them. But it is ironic because it is at this point, that they took on utter disbelief to me. You see despite their size and all those drivers - they are very room friendly. I purposely placed them in my room of 19 years where the 801's had been, up to the day before. I in fact placed them on the tape lines the 801's had occupied. The sound that emanated from them was controlled and smooth from the first song. And it remained this way "everywhere" in the room. You could get up walk around, sit down, stand up and go to the very back of the room. Not a hint of boominess playing really bass heavy music.

I then proceeded to move them back into the room more. They are not mechanically grounded yet on their spikes. I have the heavy cast alloy bases resting on a sheet of cardboard with the shiny side down on the carpet. This allows one person to gradually move them around till I dial them in. I moved them back one whole foot - gaining precious space with similar sonic results. The 801's have seen every inch of space in this room - long wall - short wall. Even a few inches with their movement can cause sonic problems in this room.

So for now I have to say that B&W was correct in their design - testing and implementation of these 800's. I look forward to dialing them in more.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Richard - ok some matrix 800 impressions coming with a few interesting pics ?

Richard if I may say - imo you are a true and authentic vinyl only connoisseur.
You don't even own a cd player !
Of all the audio friends that I know in person and virtually, you are the only one that falls into this category.
If you ever decide to post a virtual system on audiogon - call it "Mr. Analog"
It is for this reason and a couple of others - that I had that "digital" music sent to you.
I am really looking forward to your impressions....
After you have managed to borrow a cd player :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
Banquo363 ... took 5 guys 9 hours to assemble the 800's!

Hi Banquo - does that not sound sort of like a punchline to another joke ?
the one about a lightbulb comes to mind.

from the review

800 Setup from Stereophile Review.
If you're the type of person who loves to tinker with your car every weekend, and don't mind having to remove half of the engine in order to change the plugs, you'll love deciphering the 800 owner's manual and assembling these monsters. But if you're like me, this could be a big pain. The 800 comes in six large crates, with no indication of which to unpack first or where anything is supposed to go. The manual is confusing, and often incorrect, which may make you question your ability to read English ("this screw just doesn't fit into that hole!"). Luckily, in my case, Victor Goldstein (consultant to B&W), Chris Browder (Executive Vice President of B&W Loudspeakers of America), as well as two members of our musicians' listening group (Al Merz, Ed Kelly) came to the rescue. Victor had set up several pairs of 800s before these, and knew pretty much what to do, while the rest of us looked on in utter disbelief. I recommend that at least two people be available when you assemble your 800s (lifting the midrange/tweeter and upper woofer modules into place requires a combination of brute strength and finesse); better yet, let your dealer do all the work. It took five of us the better part of a day (nine hours) to unpack, assemble, and position my review pair.

Sounds like a classic case of too many chefs in the kitchen.
One guy did all the work and four of them watched and bumped into one another.
What is an EVP of the company going to know about bolting his own speakers together ?
And as far as what the B&W consultant did - like any typical consultant he took his own way - meaning he didn't do what it says to do in the manual. For those reading that are consultants please don't feel slighted with these remarks. I have been a consultant and managed other consultants for over 25 years.

(lifting the midrange/tweeter and upper woofer modules into place requires a combination of brute strength and finesse);

From my own experience. This is asking for a lot of trouble.

My build for the first 800 took about 4 hours (an afternoon). With familiarity and some lessons learned, about two 1/2 -three hours to do the second - I didn't time it. I got help from one person to lift off the wood crate covers - a similar exercise to lifting the cartons that new appliances come with - i.e. dishwasher. You are basically left with the speaker parts bolted into the bottom crate piece like this.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1382883726.jpg

The bolts used to hold them stable in the crates are the same bolts used to put them together. Simple and brilliant.

I would say one additional person needs to be there to lend a helping hand when needed. Otherwise one person does the build on the "floor".

Stereophile - The 800 comes in six large crates, with no indication of which to unpack first or where anything is supposed to go. The manual is confusing, and often incorrect, which may make you question your ability to read English

The manual is correct. My boxes are labelled A-1-2-3, B-1,2,3 The 800 build is illustrated very clearly in the owners manual too.....with pictures! You build each of them laid down on a protective floor drivers pointing sideways.

again not doing this....

(lifting the midrange/tweeter and upper woofer modules into place requires a combination of brute strength and finesse)

In pictures the 800's bases always seemed like they were made of wood to me. They are actually very heavy cast alloy filled with Fibercrete - the same stuff the midrange head is made of on the 801 and 802 matrix. - they provide big time weight leverage on the bottom allowing two normal sized people to lift the whole 800 fairly easy into place - after it is assembled - on the floor.

Ah....the life of professional reviewers.
ok - I will admit when I read the review; being just the lowly hobbyist that I am - I became jealous that the reviewer got a ticket to fly to England to see the factory.

sidenote
imo - a calm frame of mind is always required before assembling anything.
There are some people that enjoy bolting things together.
Believe it or not this type of activity has a calming effect on me as I have spent most of my life working at a job where I was in front of a laptop and or groups of people. this is a nice change of pace, being on your own - all mechanical.
I have realized I am not bad at figuring out how to put stuff together as long as when its bolted together I'm done. FINITO.
My big problem are the finishing touches.
The little things like moldings and trim in a room as an example.
My wife seems to think these things are really important.
My music room - I don't have her pushing me to finish it.
This is also the main reason my rooms will NEVER EVER look like some of the really nice rooms at Audiogon.
I get it working for me - then I just get too busy listening.
Maybe this will change later on but I doubt it as I have other hobbies that take up my time as well.

They're very funky looking.

the urban dictionary for funky = "different but cool/nice"
So thanks Banquo. I agree with you.
I think I have a track record of being attracted to "funky" things?

The more involved I get with the 800's the more fascinating they are to me.
They were a 2 1/2 year development project for Bowers and Wilkins.

Dr. Dibbs actually discusses them in the recent September 2013 Stereophile interview.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampws-dr-john-dibb-page-2

I'm excited to experience Dr. Dibbs implementation of the 800's double woofers (one high, one low) in my room. I have heard a system that had separate 4 external subs implemented before. But they were all on the floor - all over the place.
We all know that bass drivers excite the room with really long waves; requiring the 801 matrix speaker as an example imo to be placed on one of the room nodes if the room is medium sized; a bigger room is able to dissipate these long waves better but it is still better if the 801's can be on one of the nodes in any room as I have found you will need "much less " room treatment allowing the room to remain "alive" and not too damped. So as far as the 801's go this usually means a dedicated music room or no WAF. Just not consumer friendly enough as most rooms are shared; the main reason IMO these British 801's are not made anymore. PITY

Another thing that is not obvious from pics of 800's on the internet. The 800 upper bass cabinet is heavier than the lower one. This is by design because the upper woofer doesn't have the floor to help damp and deal with the bass waves, like the lower woofer does in the bottom cabinet. When you start assembling you assume the heavier cabinet goes on the bottom - wrong. Well they only bolt together one way so no worries.

Do the 800's double woofers - one extremely high - one low - really "cancel or smooth out" each of their bass waves in the room, leaving purer bass notes and less resonance; therefore resulting in clearer and musical - music ? I'm gonna find out. I also have a 19 year reference point to compare it to.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
I solved the concerns with my wife. I made her part of the sale process for the other speakers.
her role is to take cash or cheque from the sale to the bank and keep 10 per cent for herself.
Its important as well to make sure she sees speakers going - out - the door.
or least close to the front door on their way out.
I told her 3 or maybe 4 speakers will end up leaving to pay for the 800's.
She was still not expecting those cartons - oh well :^(

ct0517

Center
Owner
their here finally and in my basement.

the 6 crates containing the parts and cabling to build up Matrix 800.
19 years with the 801s3.
801's will be parked for a bit before any decisions get made.
I can post pics and impressions as I go through the 800 setup.
The spectra's in the pic (covered in plastic)are awaiting pickup by the new owner. He says he needs to make some room for them first :^)

ct0517

Center
Owner
My speaker boxes arrived in Canada last Tues 15th - day after Cdn. Thanksgiving. I am kept in the dark until Friday when I am told the shipment has been referred for examination by Canadian Customs next week. What a way to wreck a weekend....

Today I learned they were finally cleared.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Thanks for that info Richard. Here's some info I dug up from a photocopy of the Spectra owners Manual.

"A breakthrough in understanding the rules of the electrostats drive transformer (interface) suggested a "variable area" solution - while still satisfying Acoustats demand for efficiency and low-end response. The result the mk2100 series interface allows us to implement a variable geometry electrostat changing its effective width as a function of frequency. Called Symmetric Pair Electrically Curved Tranducer (Spectra)
Each speaker of the mirror pair contains a narrow line source sector operating at all frequencies (bass,mid,high)
Adjacent sectors handle mid and low frequencies. Remaining panel area reproduces bass only.
".....uses full area for maximum bass impact, and progressively narrower areas as frequency increases"

yes very different from the model 3.

Warranty

We are proud to offer this unique warranty due to the virtual indestructible nature of Acoustat panels. Acoustat guarantees our electrostatic panels against defective materials and workmanship for the life of the product.
It goes on to say the interface is warrantied for 10 years.

This warranty to my understanding is the reason when Acoustat became European the new Italian owners could no longer offer them in North America. They couldn't provide this warranty.

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Dan - other than those sub zero days that occur a couple times every winter - the worst weather here is probably when it rains and is near the freezing mark 0 c or 32 f.
Typical of Jan/Feb temps here in Southern Ontario give or take a few degrees either way.
Black ice sets in. Toronto area drivers have never learned how to drive in that stuff and are too impatient to wait for the salt trucks to do their thing. The result - real bumper cars using your own vehicle with those parked on the side of the road.

I don't like anything near or in my ears either.
Even with my cell phone if its going to be a longer call I will find a quiet spot and use the speaker phone.
Have always had headphones but the first year our fraternal twins were born I was forced to use them alot.
Even though the sound itself was good - I have never sat in the "middle" of performers doing a performance so couldn't get used to it.
All live performers I have heard whether in a small club or larger venue - even studio albums (Roger Waters Amused to Death an exception) have always been in front of me usually elevated on some of type of stage so they can be seen and the sound projects better; or I am sitting in a type of bowl. Thats the stock Quad 57 presentation. Like you are on the first floor balcony of a performance. Raising the back leg of a '57 with a piece of wood "raises" the presentation. Its a little freaky when you first do it because you are pointing the speakers down more and the sound is going up!
Regardless the performers are always in front of me. I shoot for a presentation where they are elevated just a little. For me the experience of listening with good ESL's in nearfield is sort of like the quality headphone experience but being in the first 5-10 rows and nothing touching my ears.

Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Hi Dan. great to hear from you! thank u.
I wish you were not so far out on the west coast.
Wait a minute.... in another month when winter starts settling in here I will probably wish I was out there.

Thanksgiving dinner was nice , even though our son is away playing Junior Hockey and living with a billet family.
I got to do two runs with my daughter home from university - this was really special.

prior to the first run.

"hey dad check these out" (her new ear phones she runs with) "they do bass"

they had these little plastic tunnels attached to them and go deeper into the ear drum. :^(

I give up..... I am going to try to take some for myself while I can.

Whats coming in is part of it. Its stuck in customs !

So much for free trade Dan between Canada and the US !

Hope all is well.

Cheers Chris

ct0517

Center
Owner
RichardKrebs - I wonder if the "Hi Fi" effect you describe is an artefact of the delay network used in the Spectra's. A lot of extra components are used to create this.

Hi Richard - a busy few days days here with Canadian Thanksgiving. Thats a very interesting comment. Are those extra components in the interface itself or part of the panel design - or both? Its a big advantage being able to compare in your own room. I'm willing to bet I could have improved things (closed the gap) with placement and the room is no where near complete. But as this is a culling exercise to raise cash, my objective was to go as far as I needed to go, to come to a comfortable decision for myself.

One of the friends I mentioned earlier interested in the Spectra came for a listen. Long story short - he had them cranked playing at levels I wouldn't dare with my wife in the house. Classic rock, Classical, and Jazz. He was happy and the Spectras are now sold leaving me - in the words of Phil on Duck Dynasty "happy, happy, happy", as I have now raised 1/2 of the cash I need.
Cheers

ct0517

Center
Owner
Acoustat Impressions - Modded Model 3 versus Spectra 33
A little background on both.

Modded Model 3 - (the smaller older guy with mods)

The model 3's have 3 same ESL panels - hence their name.
Mine were already modified with someone else's passion when I acquired them.
The interface internals are modified. Cardas binding posts and an IEC outlet on the outside the only clue.
Frame and base mods include real burl oak veneer on the panel portion below the actual ESL panel,
80 lb granite bases with integrated spikes, as well as extensive use of small sand bags inside the panel frame area.
I discovered the sand bags by accident. I took the panel apart from the base one day to move to another floor and one of the bags fell out ! Quite ingenious these little sand bags.
In addition to this they came with heavy wood crates enclosing their original factory boxes.
Somebody went to a lot of trouble here, and it wasn't the guy I bought them from.
I have a feeling about this because he sold them to me "fairly cheap".
Funny how this works. Maybe a lesson here ? I think so...
Make sure your wife/spouse knows the "real" market value of your gear in case you have an accident and disappear.
An audiophile nightmare waiting to happen?
Model 3 interfaces also come with a HF Tuning dial knob to adjust both or one of the speakers for room acoustics.

Tidbit
I have never owned an Apple product but here is what I think is cool picture